Sweeping report on Catholic Church sex abuse in PA

Oct 21, 2003
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"More than 300 Catholic priests in six Pennsylvania dioceses are accused of either sexually abusing children or helping others cover up abuse."

The covering up has got to stop, for the sake of faithful Catholics, for the sake of their families, and most importantly for the sake of the children.

I am sorry to a bearer of grievous news, but I do not see this as an issue that's not going away until something changes, and I think awareness and knowledge are powerful.
 

chevyontheriver

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"More than 300 Catholic priests in six Pennsylvania dioceses are accused of either sexually abusing children or helping others cover up abuse."

The covering up has got to stop, for the sake of faithful Catholics, for the sake of their families, and most importantly for the sake of the children.

I am sorry to a bearer of grievous news, but I do not see this as an issue that's not going away until something changes, and I think awareness and knowledge are powerful.
It will change when we all recognize that this is widespread in society, in schools and anywhere there are teens and pre-teens, when we all demand it stop, when we stop pretending that sexual predators are the other place's problem. In the Catholic Church for 15 years we were told that it wasn't a homosexual problem. It was even given the inaccurate name 'pedophilia'. But it was (mostly though not exclusively) a homosexual problem. It was a problem of a lack of faithfulness on the part of lecherous men that were protected and promoted by other lecherous men, often after having been themselves despoiled by their protectors and promoters.

We're all supposed to be LGBTQWERTY positive now in modern society. But not rooting this out has really harmed the Catholic Church. That is a big part of what has to change. People have to lose their jobs over this. And I finally think it will happen, as the top is about to blow off the Catholic bishops organization in this country and many other countries and if all goes well in the Vatican too.

In my little town there was abuse in a Lutheran church, and that led to a suicide. There was abuse in a Presbyterian church and that guy just up and vanished and the Presbyterians basically forgot he ever existed. I wonder if the Baptists and the non-denominationals have had their abuse and it just got buried. Actually it can be shown that they do. I know a former coworker who came home early to find his minister and his wife in the act. Things happen. It's a problem where pointing a finger at the other guy really means you have three pointed right back at you. It's a societal problem way bigger than polite people like to think it is. The Catholics have it as a sin crying out to heaven in active homosexual priests, but we don't have the sole claim to the problem.

You can demand prosecution of these lechers, wherever they are found. And don't settle for saying it's a Catholic only problem. We Christians are supposed to be allies, not that we act like it very often. By the way, the real locus of concern right now for Catholics is ex-Cardinal McCarrick and how he got away with it for decades and got promoted to the pinnacle of power and promoted so many others to high power in the Catholic Church. The Pennsylvania thing will only boost the concern he has raised all by himself.
 
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Phil 1:21

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In my little town there was abuse in a Lutheran church, and that led to a suicide. There was abuse in a Presbyterian church and that guy just up and vanished and the Presbyterians basically forgot he ever existed. I wonder if the Baptists and the non-denominationals have had their abuse and it just got buried. Actually it can be shown that they do. I know a former coworker who came home early to find his minister and his wife in the act. Things happen. It's a problem where pointing a finger at the other guy really means you have three pointed right back at you. It's a societal problem way bigger than polite people like to think it is. The Catholics have it as a sin crying out to heaven in active homosexual priests, but we don't have the sole claim to the problem.

You can demand prosecution of these lechers, wherever they are found. And don't settle for saying it's a Catholic only problem. We Christians are supposed to be allies, not that we act like it very often. By the way, the real locus of concern right now for Catholics is ex-Cardinal McCarrick and how he got away with it for decades and got promoted to the pinnacle of power and promoted so many others to high power in the Catholic Church. The Pennsylvania thing will only boost the concern he has raised all by himself.
An extremely excellent point. If we think the problem is always "over there" we run the risk of missing it right under our noses...as the people from Willow Creek just found out.
 
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An extremely excellent point. If we think the problem is always "over there" we run the risk of missing it right under our noses...as the people from Willow Creek just found out.

It is a good point, a valid point, but not the point of the OP and really is a bit of a deflection. In a mainline Protestant denomination under a broader authority of Church government, if a Pastor/Minister/Rev is found to be guilty of a prosecutable crime, that is the end of their role in that Church, and depending on the victims family the beginning of a day in court, as it should be. Most pedophiles though, make a practice of being the least suspecting person, they may be charismatic and charming, and work to get close to their prey using their families. The families never see it coming, it comes as a total surprise, if and when they find out, in some cases the families will take the word of the trusted adult over their child, and the sexual predator knows this from the start. It's disgusting and evil.
 
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I would point out that the abuse that came to light in Pennsylvania did happen years ago. Sadly only two cases can still be prosecuted under the statute of limitations. Many of the abusers are now dead, they got away with it without any punishment, at least in this lifetime.
 
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Hank77

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It is a good point, a valid point, but not the point of the OP and really is a bit of a deflection. In a mainline Protestant denomination under a broader authority of Church government, if a Pastor/Minister/Rev is found to be guilty of a prosecutable crime, that is the end of their role in that Church, and depending on the victims family the beginning of a day in court, as it should be. Most pedophiles though, make a practice of being the least suspecting person, they may be charismatic and charming, and work to get close to their prey using their families. The families never see it coming, it comes as a total surprise, if and when they find out, in some cases the families will take the word of the trusted adult over their child, and the sexual predator knows this from the start. It's disgusting and evil.
Pedophile predators are like any other predator they are going to go where there is the easiest available prey. If the RCC would allow priests to be men who wish to marry and have children of their own they wouldn't be so vulnerable to the pedophile predator.
One of my extended family member thought she wanted to be a nun. She was one of the oldest girls in a family of 14 children. While she was away at the convent she missed helping take care of her younger siblings. Before she took her vows she realize that she really wanted to have children of her own and left the convent. She was always faithful to the Church and raised her kids to be good Catholics.
My point is that if good women don't become nuns because they want to have a family, surely there are many good Catholic men who don't enter the priesthood for the same reason. The Church could be more discerning in who they choose to service.
 
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chevyontheriver

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I would point out that the abuse that came to light in Pennsylvania did happen years ago. Sadly only two cases can still be prosecuted under the statute of limitations. Many of the abusers are now dead, they got away with it without any punishment, at least in this lifetime.
Hell lasts a long time.
 
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chevyontheriver

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The Church could be more discerning in who they choose to service.
They could be more discerning, for sure. There is already a requirement worldwide that those with homosexual inclinations not be admitted to seminary nor ordained. Kind of a moot point though, when a cardinal abuses the seminarians as ex-cardinal McCarrick did to his seminarians. The rule is meaningless if the homosexuals already run the asylum, as appears to be the case in many dioceses. It's going to take a whole lot of discerning to fix that.
 
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hedrick

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Sexual abuse has occurred in Protestant churches, as well as among teachers, psychologists, pretty much anywhere. Having abusers is not what makes the Catholic Church unusual. It's the fact that the institution covered it up in a quite premeditated way. We can't demand that Catholic priests be perfect. However we can demand that the Catholic Church report all known issues to the police, and not put abuses back in positions that have contact with children. They also need to discipline bishops who don't do this.
 
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It will change when we all recognize that this is widespread in society, in schools and anywhere there are teens and pre-teens, when we all demand it stop, when we stop pretending that sexual predators are the other place's problem. In the Catholic Church for 15 years we were told that it wasn't a homosexual problem. It was even given the inaccurate name 'pedophilia'. But it was (mostly though not exclusively) a homosexual problem. It was a problem of a lack of faithfulness on the part of lecherous men that were protected and promoted by other lecherous men, often after having been themselves despoiled by th

We're all supposed to be LGBTQWERTY positive now in modern society. But not rooting this out has really harmed the Catholic Church. That is a big part of what has to change. People have to lose their jobs over this. And I finally think it will happen, as the top is about to blow off the Catholic bishops organization in this country and many other countries and if all goes well in the Vatican too.

In my little town there was abuse in a Lutheran church, and that led to a suicide. There was abuse in a Presbyterian church and that guy just up and vanished and the Presbyterians basically forgot he ever existed. I wonder if the Baptists and the non-denominationals have had their abuse and it just got buried. Actually it can be shown that they do. I know a former coworker who came home early to find his minister and his wife in the act. Things happen. It's a problem where pointing a finger at the other guy really means you have three pointed right back at you. It's a societal problem way bigger than polite people like to think it is. The Catholics have it as a sin crying out to heaven in active homosexual priests, but we don't have the sole claim to the problem.

You can demand prosecution of these lechers, wherever they are found. And don't settle for saying it's a Catholic only problem. We Christians are supposed to be allies, not that we act like it very often. By the way, the real locus of concern right now for Catholics is ex-Cardinal McCarrick and how he got away with it for decades and got promoted to the pinnacle of power and promoted so many others to high power in the Catholic Church. The Pennsylvania thing will only boost the concern he has raised all by himself.
The stats, in Australia at least, do not support your assertion its a homosexuality problem. Issue prevailed in all religions and institutions charged with the care of children. It was, however, more prevalent in the RCC and covered up with zeal by the RCC. Victims, far from being supported, were treated as enemies of the church.

Wide-sweeping reforms have been legislated as part of the recommendations that followed the Australian Royal Commission into Institutional Child Sexual Abuse.
 
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chevyontheriver

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Sexual abuse has occurred in Protestant churches, as well as among teachers, psychologists, pretty much anywhere. Having abusers is not what makes the Catholic Church unusual. It's the fact that the institution covered it up in a quite premeditated way. We can't demand that Catholic priests be perfect. However we can demand that the Catholic Church report all known issues to the police, and not put abuses back in positions that have contact with children. They also need to discipline bishops who don't do this.
While I agree with you that there was cover-up, my experience in my little town was that the Presbyterians and the Lutherans knew how to cover up pretty well. The Catholic bishops who covered this up, who aided and abetted the rise to power of Cardinal McCarrick, the ones McCarrick got high ranking jobs for, the ones who recruit teenage boys and young men for sex, they need more than discipline and transfer. Many of them have already had that, but often abused again. They need removal. And in many cases prison. But it is necessary for the Chicago public schools abusers as well, and wherever it happens, including your brand.
 
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chevyontheriver

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The stats, in Australia at least, do not support your assertion its a homosexuality problem. Issue prevailed in all religions and institutions charged with the care of children. It was, however, more prevalent in the RCC and covered up with zeal by the RCC. Victims, far from being supported, were treated as enemies of the church.
The stats in the USA show it to be mostly a homosexual problem. Most of the victims here have been teenage boys. And now it has finally become crystal clear that it's not just some priests, but also some bishops and at least one cardinal. There is a Lavender Mafia of mutual protection, and grooming teenage boys and young men for sex. Cardinal McCarrick's modus operandi has been exposed, at least in part. And the Catholic Church will either collapse or come clean this time.
 
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The Church, school, or other organization has no choice in whether they wish to report sexual abuse. The law says that it will be reported and cases will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. This includes those who fail to report or otherwise try to cover up sexual abuse. This whole thing makes me sick to my stomach.
 
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As I see it all this seems to be institutionalized. In the past when the pedophiles and homosexuals within the Roman Catholic institution committed such atrocities they knew they would be safe because their “activities” would be covered up and the worst that they could expect in the form of punishment would be to be transferred elsewhere. Only the most incredibly egregious and persistent offences would result in expulsion. The RC hierarchy is explicitly complicit since not only do they cover up such offences but they are especially adept at doing so. I remember reading somewhere that a Church official stated that reporting offending priests to the authorities should not be done because Canon Law forbids it! With Canon Law they are indeed a law unto themselves. Be that as it may, seeing as how these revelations began with Boston a number of years ago and more recently with Pennsylvania I believe it is safe to assume that there are other places here in the U.S. where such cover-ups are yet to come to light.
 
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chevyontheriver

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As I see it all this seems to be institutionalized. In the past when the pedophiles and homosexuals within the Roman Catholic institution committed such atrocities they knew they would be safe because their “activities” would be covered up and the worst that they could expect in the form of punishment would be to be transferred elsewhere. Only the most incredibly egregious and persistent offences would result in expulsion. The RC hierarchy is explicitly complicit since not only do they cover up such offences but they are especially adept at doing so.
First, it is even more apparent now that there is a Lavender Mafia that works in many dioceses, across dioceses, even internationally. Which means these debauched people work with each other to recruit new victims, to promote each other, and to protect each other. That is a different and far worse thing than what you are referring to. What you refer to is how, in the past, a bishop would discover a priest who violated his vows, remove him and send him to psychological counseling, and the counselor would eventually confirm that he was ready to come back to work as long as he avoided the particular temptations in the locale he failed with before. 1960's Psychobabble. But bishops, who should know how the sinful heart works, eagerly accepted the modern psychobabble and transferred the priest as recommended by the shrinks. That did two things, minimizing the real hurt done to the victims, and not actually protecting future victims. It also ignored the very real Lavender Mafia aspect, which is now out in the open finally.
I remember reading somewhere that a Church official stated that reporting offending priests to the authorities should not be done because Canon Law forbids it! With Canon Law they are indeed a law unto themselves. Be that as it may, seeing as how these revelations began with Boston a number of years ago and more recently with Pennsylvania I believe it is safe to assume that there are other places here in the U.S. where such cover-ups are yet to come to light.
This is a misunderstanding of a complex point in canon law. But it can be boiled down to it's essence. Basically, nothing said in a confession is to be revealed. That protects the person confessing. Nothing more sinister than that. Things such as this do need to be reported, but the source for that reporting has to be something outside what a priest hears in a confessional. It's like the privilege between an attorney and his client, still absolutely secret. The canon does not prevent reporting, just not reporting from the confessional. Bishops have done what all sorts of other people do, which is to hide the embarrassing stuff, but that's not the fault of canon law. It's garden variety cowardice. For a good, and somewhat enjoyable tutorial on this, Hitchcock's old movie 'I Confess' is really good. A priest hears the confession of a murderer, who then turns around and frames the priest for the murder. He cannot reveal what he knows from the confession, even to save himself. So he has to figure out another independent way of bringing out the truth.

There will be more to this. The new aspects are that now we get to look at it as part of a homosexual cabal where abusers recruit and groom teenage boys and young adults, protecting and promoting each other in the process. It was a misnomer to ever call it 'pedophilia' and not to link it with homosexual predation from the beginning. That was more psychobabble. This new way of looking at it will explain why it is more intractable, because it is not random individual priests, but a tribe/cabal/mafia. And finally someone should be able to create a heat map to see where the hot spots are. Since it often spreads by a powerful priest like ex-cardinal McCarrick abusing seminarians, who then become abusive themselves, we will discover the pedigreed nature finally and it will be easier to find it and root it out. And this time around the anger is palpable. The bishops are feeling the need to leave if they aren't going to lead. If they don't lead and won't leave, it will be no fun at all for them in this life or the next. I think they have awoken to that. Expect lots of resignations and removals, of priests and bishops and cardinals, maybe going all the way to the pope. We will holler if they don't come.

I don't think it is an exaggeration to say that this moment in history is on a par with the corruption that brought about the reformation, on a par with how the Arians grabbed control of almost the entire Church, and maybe on a par with when Judas sold out Jesus for 30 pieces of silver. The Judas thing involved 8.33% of the whole clergy at the time.
 
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"More than 300 Catholic priests in six Pennsylvania dioceses are accused of either sexually abusing children or helping others cover up abuse."

The covering up has got to stop, for the sake of faithful Catholics, for the sake of their families, and most importantly for the sake of the children.

I am sorry to a bearer of grievous news, but I do not see this as an issue that's not going away until something changes, and I think awareness and knowledge are powerful.
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/...spond-to-sexual-abuse-grand-jury-report-31379
 
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This is a misunderstanding of a complex point in canon law. But it can be boiled down to it's essence. Basically, nothing said in a confession is to be revealed.
Just to be clear I'm not referring to the confessional but to cannon law.
 
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