Suspects in Ahmaud Arbery’s Killing Are Indicted on Murder Charges

[Chesterton]

If he thinks he's going to be shot either way, then it is. And from the sound of it, he nearly pulled it off.

You really think he thought he was going to be murdered in broad daylight in a residential neighborhood? For jogging?

 

[Yttrium]

You really think he thought he was going to be murdered in broad daylight in a residential neighborhood? For jogging?

Plenty of precedent for things like that.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Anyone has legal authority to stop a suspected criminal. It might not always be the best decision, but there's nothing wrong with it legally or morally.

Actually, there are specific rules for that... it's not all "crime", and certain criteria have to be met.

Mere "suspicion" on its own doesn't meet the requirement.

Looking around in vacant home that's still under construction is, at most, a misdemeanor, and you'd have to have direct immediate knowledge that they actually took something...even then, that's still not a felony in most cases.

Why was he trying to get away from them? That's what guilty people do. Innocent people talk about what's going on. No, the violent charging at the guy trying to take his gun is escalation.

For the same reason I would try to get away from them. Strange people I don't know, trying to detain me, after I spent the last 3 minutes trying to get away from them certainly seems like escalation to me. I wouldn't like it either

Do you think they would've been as inclined to do what they did had they not been armed?

Seems like for some folks, a carry permit emboldens them to interject themselves in non-violent situations that they'd otherwise steer clear of. The only reason the violence occurred is because they decided to play cop. Remember, the suspicious act they caught him involved in was potentially snooping around in a vacant house that was under construction. It's not as if they saw him trying to beat up a lady and steal her purse.

Had they stayed in the truck and not pulled in front of him, any of it have happened?

Zimmerman was being physically harmed.

Yes, after he instigated...

Which is why I said some of the stand your ground laws are worded poorly and need re-written.

If I go into a restaurant, spit in someone's food, call their daughter a nasty name right in front of them, and then dare to "do something about it punk!", and they rightfully stand up to address the situation and grab me by the shirt collar, and then I shoot them. It's unfair to say that them grabbing my shirt collar "was the escalation that led to violence".

With the current laws, you can intentionally provoke someone in a way that you know will draw a harsh reaction just to "have an excuse".

 

[loveofourlord]

FYI, that was Charlton Heston, back when he was president of the NRA.

nahhhh this was more recent, it was some interview by him in england on a radio show, and just listening to the rant kinda made me scared.

 

[Chesterton]

Plenty of precedent for things like that.

I recall a black guy killing a white lady in Houston like that many years ago. That's the only case I can think of. Besides, if you claim Arbery "nearly pulled it off", that just tells me that McMichaels didn't want to shoot him. It was a last second, last resort decision. And therefore wasn't murder.

 

[Chesterton]

Actually, there are specific rules for that... it's not all "crime", and certain criteria have to be met.

View attachment 279668

Mere "suspicion" on its own doesn't meet the requirement.

Looking around in vacant home that's still under construction is, at most, a misdemeanor, and you'd have to have direct immediate knowledge that they actually took something...even then, that's still not a felony in most cases.

Seriously, no normal person knows the "rules" of any particular jurisdiction, or cares. You see something, you act.

For the same reason I would try to get away from them. Strange people I don't know, trying to detain me, after I spent the last 3 minutes trying to get away from them certainly seems like escalation to me. I wouldn't like it either

Do you think they would've been as inclined to do what they did had they not been armed?

Seems like for some folks, a carry permit emboldens them to interject themselves in non-violent situations that they'd otherwise steer clear of. The only reason the violence occurred is because they decided to play cop. Remember, the suspicious act they caught him involved in was potentially snooping around in a vacant house that was under construction. It's not as if they saw him trying to beat up a lady and steal her purse.

Had they stayed in the truck and not pulled in front of him, any of it have happened?

I'll repeat what I said before: a normal person would have ignored them, tried to talk to them, or called the police.

Yes, after he instigated...

Which is why I said some of the stand your ground laws are worded poorly and need re-written.

If I go into a restaurant, spit in someone's food, call their daughter a nasty name right in front of them, and then dare to "do something about it punk!", and they rightfully stand up to address the situation and grab me by the shirt collar, and then I shoot them. It's unfair to say that them grabbing my shirt collar "was the escalation that led to violence".

With the current laws, you can intentionally provoke someone in a way that you know will draw a harsh reaction just to "have an excuse".

You may be hypothetically right but that scenario has nothing in common with these cases.

 

[SummerMadness]

Three men charged with federal hate crimes in fatal shooting of Ahmaud Arbery

A federal grand jury indicted three White men on hate crime and attempted kidnapping charges Wednesday in the death of Ahmaud Arbery, a 25-year-old Black man whose fatal shooting last year in coastal Georgia sparked a national outcry.

Travis McMichael, 35; his father, Gregory McMichael, a 65-year-old former police detective; and William "Roddie" Bryan, 51, are already awaiting trial on murder charges, accused of chasing and killing Arbery as he ran through the Satilla Shores neighborhood of Brunswick, Ga., in February 2020. The case went months without arrests until a video of the shooting went viral, drawing condemnations and comparisons to a lynching.

 

[SummerMadness]

An article with no paywall:

3 Men Indicted on Federal Hate Crime Charges in Ahmaud Arbery Killing

A grand jury has charged three Georgia men with federal hate crimes and attempted kidnapping in the death of Ahmaud Arbery, a 25-year-old Black man who was shot while jogging last year.

Gregory McMichael, 65; his son, Travis McMichael, 35; and William "Roddie" Bryan, 51, were each charged with one count of interference with rights and with one count of attempted kidnapping, according to a Justice Department statement.

Travis and Gregory McMichael also face charges of using guns to inflict violence.

The indictment alleges the defendants used force and threats to intimidate and interfere with Arbery's right to use a public street because he was Black.

The McMichaels chased Arbery through a suburban neighborhood outside Brunswick, Ga., yelling at him, cutting off his jogging route with their truck and threatening him with guns.