Surprised nobodies debating Texas's new abortion law.

[Goonie]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/07/19/texas-sb8-abortion-lawsuits/

A terrible law.

But hey just think if found constitutional will allow other states to effectively ban gun ownership, make being Christian effectively illegal. Free speech(only if you can afford the court fees). The possibilities of turning the constitution into toilet paper are endless.

 

[rambot]

Then wouldn't it just be struck down after a constitutional challenge?

 

[Goonie]

Then wouldn't it just be struck down after a constitutional challenge?

Fair question, but Texas are trying an endrun Round the Constitution, they are banning abortion but leaving the enforcing of the law to citizens, not govt. It should be unconstitutional, but stupidity happens.

 

[Lain Iwakura]

"The right to abortion" also known as the right to murder children. Abortion is the violation of the right of life - it is first degree murder. And an appropriate punishment for procuring an abortion, the same as procuring a hitman, would be 20 years of hard labor. And the punishment for those hitmen who perform abortions is the death penalty.

Making law against the anti-right of abortion does not effect actual rights.

 

[Goonie]

Then wouldn't it just be struck down after a constitutional challenge?

From the article
'But in another sense, S.B. 8 is radically different. Every other state charged government officials with enforcing the penalties for their attempted abortion bans; courts ensured those bans never took effect by prohibiting the defendant officials from enforcing them. So the Texas legislature has taken a different tack: S.B. 8 authorizes “any person” other than the government to sue someone who provides an abortion after six weeks, helps someone obtain an abortion after six weeks or “intends” to do these things. (Abortion patients themselves cannot be sued.)'

 

[pdudgeon]

Umm, nope it won't cause those things.
Life, liberty, and, the pursuit of happiness are guaranteed under the Bill of Rights.
Life is listed first, because everything comes from life. Without life, nothing happens.
So in order for what you are calling for to happen, first there must be a wholesale slaughter of every single U.S. citizen save one.
And that's not going to happen.

 

[Lain Iwakura]

I have the right to walk down the street and 'abort' the first child I see with a machete, because my body my choice. And that includes the bodily autonomy of other discrete human individuals - so it's my right to abortion. Let's just offer all the children in the fires to molech, because that's what the constitution allows.

 

[BNR32FAN]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/07/19/texas-sb8-abortion-lawsuits/

A terrible law.

But hey just think if found constitutional will allow other states to effectively ban gun ownership, make being Christian effectively illegal. Free speech(only if you can afford the court fees). The possibilities of turning the constitution into toilet paper are endless.

I support the law because I believe the constitution is set in place to protect all humans, not only those who can voice their perspective on the matter. I think one person’s freedom shouldn’t be able to take the life of an innocent person.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/07/19/texas-sb8-abortion-lawsuits/

A terrible law.

But hey just think if found constitutional will allow other states to effectively ban gun ownership, make being Christian effectively illegal. Free speech(only if you can afford the court fees). The possibilities of turning the constitution into toilet paper are endless.

ug paywall.... but found this.

Texas abortion law that bans procedure as early as six weeks set to go into effect after court cancels hearing, denies motions


The law looks good on the surface if your conservative. Very interesting you compare it other things. Abortion is one of those things, that the more we learn about fetuses with ultra sound etc. the more the old conceptions of them being "just tissue" goes away.

I think it is a good law and not just for that, but kind of along the lines of your sarcastic comment. Coming from California, and getting into guns very very late in life actually due to anti-gun legislation etc. if not for that I would have likely been a fence sitter, like I had been for decades... I noticed the ultra liberal California legislature was proposing laws on that topic almost like they gained some kind of erotic pleasure from it.

It occurred to me that this almost always how things are at least in recent times. By and large Liberals in the media and politics set the agenda and more or less frame the conversation and bamboozle you into defending why you need such a gun, or not to mask etc.

It really has been decades since the Moral Majority has actually really scared liberals etc. into thinking their undocumented right to abortion might be endangered. But it occurred to me, that the present way of things is not working for conservatives and if we are going to keep our rights we really need to do more to threaten some of the cherished rights of progressives, especially in the areas that they are vulnerable in like abortion mills and put them on the defensive much more as a form of suppression fire for our own rights.

 

[Goonie]

I support the law because I believe the constitution is set in place to protect all humans, not only those who can voice their perspective on the matter. I think one person’s freedom shouldn’t be able to take the life of an innocent person.

It is a terrible law designed to persecute not prosecute.

 

[Goonie]

ug paywall.... but found this.

Texas abortion law that bans procedure as early as six weeks set to go into effect after court cancels hearing, denies motions


The law looks good on the surface if your conservative. Very interesting you compare it to those other things. Abortion is one of those things, that the more we learn about fetuses with ultra sound etc. the more the old conceptions of them being "just tissue" goes away.

I think it is a good law and not just for that. But kind of along the lines of your sarcastic comment. Coming from California, and getting into guns very very late in life actually due to anti-gun legislation etc. if not for that I would have likely been a fence sitter, like I had been for decades... I noticed the ultra liberal California legislature was proposing laws on that topic almost like they gained some kind of erotic pleasure from it.

It occurred to me that this almost always how things are at least in recent times. By and large Liberals in the media etc. set the agenda and more or less frame the conversation and bamboozle you into defending why you need such a gun, or not to mask etc.

It really has been decades since the Moral Majority has actually really scared liberals etc. into thinking their undocumented right to abortion might be endangered. But it occurred to me, that the present way of things is not working for conservatives and if we are going to keep our rights we really need to do more to threaten some of the cherished rights of progressives, especially in the areas that they are vulnerable in like abortion mills and put them on the defensive much more.

Hey here's a new law. Let's make mask wearing compulsory using the Texas template. The state declares everyone must were a mask,but citizens are the ones enforcing it. Feel free to sue anyone for 5 figures for not wearing a mask and not liable for defenders costs if they lose. Even better you can sue the same person multiple times for the same offence.

Great law (not).

 

[BNR32FAN]

It is a terrible law designed to persecute not prosecute.

I think it’s designed to give incentive for the general public to get involved in the saving of innocent lives. This way people have more incentive to report illegal abortions rather than turning a blind eye to them since they now have something to gain from reporting them, but the one thing that does worry me about this approach is the wealthy might be still be able to go ahead with illegal abortions just because they can afford to lose the lawsuit and pay the penalty. Personally I still prefer that criminal charges be filed against offenders and perhaps a cash reward incentive should be awarded to those who report illegal abortions that could still be payable by those who have been convicted.

 

[dzheremi]

Surprised nobodies debating Texas's new abortion law.

I don't think any of us are really all that surprised by it, to be honest. It is Texas, after all.

 

[Goonie]

I think it’s designed to give incentive for the general public to get involved in the saving of innocent lives. This way people have more incentive to report illegal abortions rather than turning a blind eye to them since they now have something to gain from reporting them, but the one thing that does worry me about this approach is the wealthy might be still be able to go ahead with illegal abortions just because they can afford to lose the lawsuit and pay the penalty. Personally I still prefer that criminal charges be filed against offenders and perhaps a cash reward incentive should be awarded to those who report illegal abortions that could still be payable by those who have been convicted.

It is a terrible law because it sets a precedent for other bad laws. Imagine a mask/vaccination law on the same principles. Say California makes mask wearing and vaccination manditory, but leaves it to citizens to enforce it on the same terms as the Texas law.

 

[Arcangl86]

I think it’s designed to give incentive for the general public to get involved in the saving of innocent lives.

No, it's designed to get around the Constitutional protections for abortion by taking the state out of direct enforcement. It's a novel attempt, and normally I would expect it to be struck down with a quickness by SCOTUS. But with the current makeup of the Court, I'm not as sure.

 

[seeking.IAM]

So if I am understanding correctly, if a person finds a provider to perform an abortion at 7 weeks she can turn around and sue the provider for having done it? It says, "any person," right? In what world does that make sense?

 

[BNR32FAN]

It is a terrible law because it sets a precedent for other bad laws. Imagine a mask/vaccination law on the same principles. Say California makes mask wearing and vaccination manditory, but leaves it to citizens to enforce it on the same terms as the Texas law.

I think a mask law like that would be a great idea. I don’t think that the vaccinations should or can be made mandatory by law. I think lifting the mask law was a stupid idea at this point in the pandemic.

 

[Goonie]

No, it's designed to get around the Constitutional protections for abortion by taking the state out of direct enforcement. It's a novel attempt, and normally I would expect it to be struck down with a quickness by SCOTUS. But with the current makeup of the Court, I'm not as sure.

But hey if it passed muster at least California can ban gun ownership, and Chicago can make loving Chicago pizza manditory!

 

[Goonie]

So if I am understanding correctly, if a person finds a provider to perform an abortion at 7 weeks she can turn around and sue the provider for having done it? It says, "any person," right? In what world does that make sense?

Welcome to Texas. It's bad law.

 

[Goonie]

I think a mask law like that would be a great idea. I don’t think that the vaccinations should or can be made mandatory by law. I think lifting the mask law was a stupid idea at this point in the pandemic.

It's the method of enforcement and how the law removes basic protections that makes it bad law. A person can be sued multiple times by multiple people using exactly the same evidence and win, but will have to pay there own costs, and winning one case will have zero effect on the others, since the Texas law bans courts from taking account of there having beaten the same charge in another court case.