Suppressing the truth in unrighteousness ...

[Truth in Faith]

God has revealed himself in His Creation, in Jesus, in the Bible, and in our personal experiences.

Unbelievers will say:
Nature created itself, Jesus was not who the Bible says he was, the Bible was written by men with on divine inspiration, and personal experiences are subjective.

I would wager a bet that if "Made by Yahweh" were encoded in each one of our cells, there would be the same amount of unbelievers, going to the furthest reaches of their imaginations to invent alternate theories.

 

[Quath]

I don't think there would. Most atheists I have met were once Christians that could find no proof to support their faith.

If it said "Made by Zeus" in our cells, would you change your religion? I know I would would be quite convinced a being named Zeus lived and wrote that in our DNA.

The most convincing thing that God could do would be to come down and talk to people or issue an update to the Bible. But His silence shows He does not care or does not exist.

Scott (Quath)

 

[Arikay]

so you choose to believe words written by man, over gods own creation. I see. There is a special place in hell for people that believe that.

Hehe, military theistic evolutionism, using the tactics of militant literal creationists is fun.

(yes, this is a joke)

 

[Truth in Faith]

so you choose to believe words written by man, over gods own creation. I see. There is a special place in hell for people that believe that.

Hehe, military theistic evolutionism, using the tactics of militant literal creationists is fun.

(yes, this is a joke)

What!?

 

[Arikay]

Just having fun trying to play an extreme side.

 

[lucaspa]

Today at 07:46 PM Truth in Faith said this in Post #1

God has revealed himself in His Creation, in Jesus, in the Bible, and in our personal experiences.

Unbelievers will say:
Nature created itself, Jesus was not who the Bible says he was, the Bible was written by men with on divine inspiration, and personal experiences are subjective.

I would wager a bet that if "Made by Yahweh" were encoded in each one of our cells, there would be the same amount of unbelievers, going to the furthest reaches of their imaginations to invent alternate theories.

TiF, if you want to wage the theism vs atheism battle, take it to the Apologetics Forum.  This isn't the place. Science is agnostic.

Kenneth Miller and Theodosius Dobzhansky look(ed) at nature and see/saw Creation.  Richard Dawkins looks at the same nature and not only fails to see Creation but says he sees evidence against the existence of a deity.

When such dedicated and competent scientist reach such diametrically opposed opinions, I can only conclude that nature simply does not show either one.

Again, this forum isn't about whether God exists or created.  For those who believe in God, evolution is simply how God created.

 

[lucaspa]

Today at 07:53 PM Quath said this in Post #2

The most convincing thing that God could do would be to come down and talk to people or issue an update to the Bible. But His silence shows He does not care or does not exist.

Scott (Quath)

Scott, you need to learn to consider alternative hypotheses, not just the ones that you favor. In this case, particularly not the ones that favor your prior emotional faith.

Many theists do claim that deity communicates with them.  Mormonism even claims that there was an issued update of the Bible.

So, for many theists there isn't silence.  That you and I hear silence could have many hypotheses other than the ones you offered:

1. Perhaps you are so fixed in your faith that no communication would convince you anyway.
2. As a subset of that, perhaps deity is trying to communicate with us, but we refuse to recognize it for what it is and dismiss it.
3. You and I lack the brain module that allows communication.  We simply are the unlucky individuals that didn't get it thru inheritance.
4. Perhaps Yahweh considers that the Bible is already sufficient evidence and would convince people of Yahweh's existence if those people weren't so stubborn in rejecting it.
5. A la Miller, if Yahweh is really concerned about people exercising free will -- as the structure of the universe suggests -- forcing such communication would violate that free will.

 

[Cantuar]

I would wager a bet that if "Made by Yahweh" were encoded in each one of our cells, there would be the same amount of unbelievers, going to the furthest reaches of their imaginations to invent alternate theories.

I would wager a bet that if the heavens opened and God appeared and said, "Look, you numskulls, I used evolution!", the young-Earth creationists would respond, "No you didn't, or it would say so in the Bible!" YECs have elevated the Bible to the fourth person of the trinity and placed it above the other three.

 

[TheBear]

Today at 07:46 PM Truth in Faith said this in Post #1

God has revealed himself in His Creation, in Jesus, in the Bible, and in our personal experiences.

Unbelievers will say:
Nature created itself, Jesus was not who the Bible says he was, the Bible was written by men with on divine inspiration, and personal experiences are subjective.

I would wager a bet that if "Made by Yahweh" were encoded in each one of our cells, there would be the same amount of unbelievers, going to the furthest reaches of their imaginations to invent alternate theories.

Not quite.

There are many non-Christian religions of the world, who believe that some kind of a divine force, created the universe and life.

Atheists only account for a relatively small percent of the world population. Their main venues and outlets are these chat boards.

 

[JohnR7]

Yesterday at 07:46 PM Truth in Faith said this in Post #1 I would wager a bet that if "Made by Yahweh" were encoded in each one of our cells, there would be the same amount of unbelievers, going to the furthest reaches of their imaginations to invent alternate theories.

No one in Ancient Isreal doubted that there was a God. But they still lived in open rebellion against Him. Even if people knew for sure there was a God, they could still deny Him, by living a life that does not please Him.

 

[Tenek]

Today at 01:02 AM JohnR7 said this in Post #10

No one in Ancient Isreal doubted that there was a God. But they still lived in open rebellion against Him. Even if people knew for sure there was a God, they could still deny Him, by living a life that does not please Him.

Well that's enough of your fiction for now. Care to tell me about things that actually happened?

 

[JohnR7]

Today at 03:47 AM Tenek said this in Post #11 
Care to tell me about things that actually happened?

Carefull sonny, a few years and you will be 20 and God may just hold you accountable for every word you say:

Numbers 14:27-29
    How long shall I bear with this evil congregation, which murmur against me? I have heard the murmurings of the children of Israel, which they murmur against me. [28] Say unto them, As truly as I live, saith the Lord, as ye have spoken in mine ears, so will I do to you: [29] Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward, which have murmured against me,

It is only a matter of time before you are nothing more than a carcase, and then the only thing that will matter on that day is: what is your standing with God. Is He well pleased with you or not? Today is the day and now is the time for salvation. To make your choice for God, to live for Him and to be well pleasing in HIS sight. Because it does not matter what you or I think about it, all that matters is, what does GOD think about it.

 

[Quath]

Yesterday at 06:19 PM lucaspa said this in Post #7 Many theists do claim that deity communicates with them.  Mormonism even claims that there was an issued update of the Bible.

The Bible shows that God uses more conventional means of communication from the talking burning bush to talking animals to talks face to face.  So the Biblical God is said to have this ability.

So, for many theists there isn't silence.  That you and I hear silence could have many hypotheses other than the ones you offered:

1. Perhaps you are so fixed in your faith that no communication would convince you anyway.
2. As a subset of that, perhaps deity is trying to communicate with us, but we refuse to recognize it for what it is and dismiss it.
3. You and I lack the brain module that allows communication.  We simply are the unlucky individuals that didn't get it thru inheritance.
4. Perhaps Yahweh considers that the Bible is already sufficient evidence and would convince people of Yahweh's existence if those people weren't so stubborn in rejecting it.
5. A la Miller, if Yahweh is really concerned about people exercising free will -- as the structure of the universe suggests -- forcing such communication would violate that free will.

I have considered these before.  For 1, I use to be Christian and heard nothing.  For 2 and 3, I know that God could try alternative methods to talk to me like talking through a donkey. 

I think 4, would show that God is not that intelligent if He can't see the flaws in the Bible.  That would make the idea that He is a supreme designer highly questionable.  Also, if He is all knowing as the Bible says, then He knows that He could give better proof of His existance.  So He either can not or choses not.

For 5, God shows that He does not honor free will by making Pharoah keep the Isrealites slaves when Pharoah wanted to set them free.  Also, God has communicated with others in the Bible.

Of course, if God is not the Biblical God, then anything is possible.  But that would mean that Christianity, Judiasm, and Muslims are wrong.

Scott (Quath)

 

[AV1611VET]

I would wager a bet that if "Made by Yahweh" were encoded in each one of our cells, there would be the same amount of unbelievers, going to the furthest reaches of their imaginations to invent alternate theories.

No doubt.

 

[Jay Follett]

Scott, you need to learn to consider alternative hypotheses, not just the ones that you favor. In this case, particularly not the ones that favor your prior emotional faith.

Have you considered the Muslim or the native American alternative hypotheses? how much evidence is there for those? about the same as for yours?

 

[PsychoSarah]

No doubt.

one I am sure AV will like http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/016/899/bumped_by_god.gif

 

[AV1611VET]

one I am sure AV will like

 

[TLK Valentine]

God has revealed himself in His Creation, in Jesus, in the Bible, and in our personal experiences.

Unbelievers will say:
Nature created itself, Jesus was not who the Bible says he was, the Bible was written by men with on divine inspiration, and personal experiences are subjective.

I would wager a bet that if "Made by Yahweh" were encoded in each one of our cells, there would be the same amount of unbelievers, going to the furthest reaches of their imaginations to invent alternate theories.

And I would wager that if "Made by Allah" were encoded instead, there were be far more unbelievers...