Support Bush Administration!

clirus

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Criminology quote

Is your solution imprisoning all non-christians in Christification camps?

Response

That may be your interpretation, but that is not what I wrote.

I do not believe the Atheistic Lifestyle is good for an individual or a nation and I provide evidence that the elements of the Atheistic Lifestyle leads to disease, death and destruction.

I believe that if people are presented an honest unbiased presentation of the Atheistic Lifestyle and the Christian Lifestyle, they would choose the Christian Lifestyle and the Arthritic Lifestyle would fade back into the closet.

The propaganda of the Atheistic Liberal News Media is what is deceiving people into accepting the Atheistic Lifestyle.

If Christians will begin to realize the fact of the Cultural War and speak out boldly, America can return to being a Christian nation, which will be good for all Americans, Christians and Atheists.

I believe in Democracy, Christianity and Capitalism. Democracy allows choice, Christianity defines the right choice and Capitalism produces the prosperity that allows Democracy and Christianity to work. Christianity is essential to prevent the excesses of Democracy and Capitalism from destroying society. Christianity deals with individual ethics, that collectively produce a ethical society. Laws are needed to punish people, but it is better to prevent than to punish.
 
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TheReasoner

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I believe in Democracy, Christianity and Capitalism.
This irks me. I understand where this view comes from historically, but I believe it needs to be challenged.

Democracy allows choice, Christianity defines the right choice and Capitalism produces the prosperity that allows Democracy and Christianity to work.

I could not disagree more. On the capitalism part. Historically and biblically there is very little - if any - connection between Christianity or Judaism and Democracy as a political system. I find this is a dominant view in the USA, and knowing your history it is understandable, but not any less disagreeable.
That said, of course I love democracy. But I loathe Capitalism, and I will get back to why.

Christianity is essential to prevent the excesses of Democracy and Capitalism from destroying society. Christianity deals with individual ethics, that collectively produce a ethical society. Laws are needed to punish people, but it is better to prevent than to punish.

I agree that it is much better to prevent than to punish/treat. That goes for every aspect of society.

I do agree that democracy is ideal - provided the culture is ready for it. If not, there will be turmoil before the society - hopefully - settles down into a stable democracy. But, I said I would challenge capitalism. Capitalism which so many Americans honestly believe is an integral part of Christianity. And many can provide verses to prove their stance. (I might add that KKK also do this, and that using verses aloe do not necessarily confirm a theological stance). Funny thing is, once you start reading up on modern occultism and satanism you will find certain similarities too.
I would use a simple statement to sum up my thoughts, and that is: "The love for money is the root of all evil". Pure capitalism thrives on the love for money more so than less liberal economical systems.
What you will not find, is of course the compassion for one another. For the weak in society which Christianity has in abundance. And Capitalism as a system lacks, I might add.
Capitalism is about the generation of capital, and views capital as a goal. I do not share this view, but believe that life quality, equality, health and stability are better goals worth striving for. When one seeks capital as one's prime goal - which is the case for corporations and businesses - other things will suffer.
Capitalism thrives on liberal trade laws reducing or altogether removing restrictions on corporations and the trade these depend on. This, in turn, facilitates the abuse by said corporations. The lower the restrictions, the less the corporations have to worry about. They can spend less money on cleaning the waste a corporations sends out. Less money securing it's employees (f there's a surplus of potential employees) and less on creating a safe work environment.
Examples of this include the slave labour used by Nike, Tommy Hilfiger, and many many other corporations. Then there's how Texaco and Coca Cola have been responsible for abuse of natural resources in ways which have cost human lives, and devastated local economies. If one wants to look at the ultimate consequence of a liberal (capitalistic) economy - one needs only look to the corporate wars the East Indian Trading companies had. A "war" which resulted in mass murder on a very large scale. To secure profit.
The problem lies in that corporations will always abuse loopholes and lacking restrictions if these can secure them more profit. When corporations are competing, they will always seek to produce their goods at a lower price than their competitors to ensure maximum earning. This is naturally done because profit is their top priority.

Capitalism, consumerism and materialism go hand in hand. The more we consume, the more profit is generated. The more materialistic we are, the more we consume. As covered above, the less money a corporation spends on production of a said amount of goods, the more profits are generated. This is slightly simplified, but the basics are there. As also covered - this is done quite often with slave labour, or with vastly inadequate environmental protection. Which in some cases may have dire results.

I believe we can both agree that consumerism is not a Christian trait. And that materialism is not a Christian value. I believe we can agree that while slavery per se is not directly condemned in the bible, it is still something we should have put behind us a long time ago. Not to mention dumping our waste where we know it will cost human lives and harm our fellow man.
Yet these and worse are things corporations have used to maximize their competitiveness and profits. All facilitated by a capitalistic approach.
This is one reason why I do not believe Capitalism is unifiable with Christianity.

So what economic system is the ideal one? Communism? We know Marxistic communism failed miserably. And in all likelihood any form of communism attempted on a large scale will fail. Maybe it is a system we will see in heaven where our flawed human traits are long gone. And we will be able to share everything we have equally without any problem. On earth however, communism is sadly quite impossible. (And no, communism is not anti-religious in itself. Though Marxism may be. Please remember all Communism is not Marxism)
I am not a communist. And obviously, I am no Capitalist either. I believe in getting the best from both camps, or designing something new. My thoughts concerning an economic system which would be rooted in Christianity and Christian ethics would be as follows.

We need a system where abuse of people and nature is not encouraged, preferably not possible. So we need laws and restrictions in place to ensure they don't happen. Or if they do - that it is punished and stopped.
We need a system where corporations and individuals are encouraged to compete, in a responsible and ethical manner.
And finally, we need a system which helps us take care of the poor, the unfortunate. The sick and the broken. To care for the least among us as Jesus commanded.

So what am I advocating? A system where we keep the competition capitalism brings. Which is good and necessary. A system which incorporates social services such as education and healthcare as in socialism. All the while keeping a focus on a maintainable use of natural resources so as to not damage and harm the nation and the world for coming generations - except through by accident.

So, I believe we need restrictions and laws put in place by a democratic government of our peers. Thus, not a liberalistic economical system like the US system. Not a totalitarian economy either. Not an economy where everything is state owned, but where the state and the people in the state benefit from the wealth of their nation in the form of free education to the best of the individual's capabilities, and healthcare to meet their needs. Caring for the least among us, letting co-operation be more dominant in society as a whole rather than competition.
 
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Sphere

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I do not believe the Atheistic Lifestyle is good for an individual or a nation and I provide evidence that the elements of the Atheistic Lifestyle leads to disease, death and destruction.

You can believe whatever your heart desires, but your beliefs are not consistent with reality.

You have nothing to show that its bad for the individual.
You have nothing to show that its bad fro the nation.

And this notion that the atheistic "lifestyle" can lead to disease, death, and destruction is sheer fantasy.

I believe that if people are presented an honest unbiased presentation of the Atheistic Lifestyle and the Christian Lifestyle, they would choose the Christian Lifestyle and the Arthritic Lifestyle would fade back into the closet.

You're simply too arrogant and pompous to grasp the concept that perhaps some people grew up differently than you. They reject the "christian lifestyle" for the same reason you reject the "islamic lifestyle" or the "buddhist lifestyle".

The propaganda of the Atheistic Liberal News Media is what is deceiving people into accepting the Atheistic Lifestyle

If Christians will begin to realize the fact of the Cultural War and speak out boldly, America can return to being a Christian nation, which will be good for all Americans, Christians and Atheists.

There is only a cultural war in your head. It doesn't exist in the real world.

I find the last sentence amusing, given your previous false, and unsourced ridiculous assertions that "atheists" cause disease, destruction, and death--I can only imagine you to be gleeful support of Christification camps for non-christians.

I believe in Democracy, Christianity and Capitalism.

No, you really do not believe in democracy.

This *IS* a democracy, and clearly you're unhappy with the way things are going. Compiled with what you are against, what you are troubled with, with your solutions and the "causes" of everything bad in society, it's pretty clear that you believe in Fascism.

Democracy allows choice

And you want to strip the choices from millions of atheists/non-christians in society.

You do not believe in democracy, you believe in fascism.

Christianity defines the right choice

Says who? You?

Maybe Islam defines the right choice?
Maybe Judaism defines the right choice?
Maybe Mormonism defines the right choice?
Maybe hinduism defines the right choice?
Maybe jainism defines the right choice?
Maybe taoism defines the right choice?

Does MY lifestyle bring death, disease and destruction? I'm certainly not a christian, therefore I must not be making the "right choices" in comparison to say...a good self-asserted righteous and productive individual like yourself. Right Clirus?

To the Christification Camps! Where all you heathens can make the Right® choices, follow the Right® religion, and if you don't like our convoluted and perverted definition of Christianity, you will be sent to the ovens! SIEG HE....(If I could roll my eyes any harder, they'd have bruises)

and Capitalism produces the prosperity that allows Democracy and Christianity to work.

This country is prosperity. You're not happy with it, you're not happy with democracy OR the prosperity that it brings. You want change, you want to force your beliefs onto others. You want fascism.

Christianity is essential to prevent the excesses of Democracy and Capitalism from destroying society.

You are a very clear example that the LAST THING you want is Democracy and Capitalism. You want to destroy it, you want to instill a fundamentalist, fascist regime which controls all aspect of daily lives and the subjects who live under its rule. You want to destroy society.

Christianity deals with individual ethics, that collectively produce a ethical society

You can live however you want, and the rest of society will live however they want. However that isn't good enough for you is it? You want to instill a fascist regime that forces everyone to accept your convoluted dogma. You sincerely believe that everyone else is a threat, evil, promoting death and destruction. It is you who are the threat Clirus. You literally promote the very thing you claim the made up atheistic lifestyle wants to destroy. You hate democracy. You want fascism in it's purist forms.

Laws are needed to punish people, but it is better to prevent than to punish.

ahh..aber dein fuhrer wurdet denke du bist sprechen die wahr.

But not me.
 
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MachZer0

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This thread started by asking for positive things Bush has done. The positive was clearly demonstrated. The goal posts then moved to ask if there was anybody who likes Bush. That also has been clearly demonstrated and should go without saying. Over all, this has been a successful thread despite the several hijack attempts.
 
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Sphere

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Every leader in history(including the most notorious) did "positive" things. All the OP wanted to know was some positive things by the Bush Administration. You could have substituted Adolf Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, and the ilk instead of "The Bush Administration" and achieved the same "success" MachZer0. As all of those notorious leaderships did "positive" things for their countries.

History will only deem leaders successful if their positives outweigh the negatives. Has the bush administration done some positive things? Sure. Do those positive things outweigh the negative? No. Was this thread successful? Sure. Was the Bush Administration Successful? No.
 
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MezzaMorta

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Every leader in history(including the most notorious) did "positive" things. You could have substituted Adolf Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, and the ilk instead of "The Bush Administration" and achieved the same "success" MachZer0. As all of those notorious leaderships did "positive" things for their countries.

Especially for the Zionist movement.
 
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TheReasoner

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This thread started by asking for positive things Bush has done. The positive was clearly demonstrated. The goal posts then moved to ask if there was anybody who likes Bush. That also has been clearly demonstrated and should go without saying. Over all, this has been a successful thread despite the several hijack attempts.
Bush might be a good guy. I don't know him. He's just not a good president. *shrug*
 
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Sphere

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Especially for the Zionist movement.

If you had actually read my post, you would see that i'm not comparing the Bush Administration to any notorious leaderships. Im merely stating all notorious leaderships have "positives". But you seem keen on making comparisons, a strategy I would expect from someone with the political sophistication of an 11 year old. Not an adult. This thread isn't about your fantasies revolving around the "Zionist movement", it's about the Bush Administration. :wave:
 
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ONEGod

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Originally Posted by ONEGod


ONEGod:
I'd venture a guess that you def[e[n[d]ed them to the hilt and denigrate Christianity as your view of being open/fair minded.
Nathan:
No surprise, your guess would be wrong.

ONEGod:
You mean what you preach to them in school is different than what you preach here ?

Neverstop:
This thread is like real life in some ways. Bush supporters make claims and fail to back them up then claim victory. Too much like oreilly! It would be funny if it didnt cost so many lives.

ONEGod:
You mean Bush supporters are mimic-ing the Wellstone victory funeral celebration or elctions in resounding defeat as victories ? You make a good point for the parites are too much alike. I like my Christianity/Conservatism far less polluted/perverted

By the way, our capitalism thrives on people enjoying the fruits of their labors. Quite Biblical. Even the Lord was wrathful of those that showed no PROFIT.

Criminology:

You're simply too arrogant and pompous to grasp the concept that perhaps some people grew up differently than you. They reject the "christian lifestyle" for the same reason you reject the "islamic lifestyle" or the "buddhist lifestyle".

ONEGod:
Some people believe in their 'right' to murder, rape, torture and oppress their neighbor and even enslave him for not believing in God exactly like them. I don't that's reasons enough for not being a Muslim. Some people believe in worhipping themselves and a higher mentality, which is not god at all except the smallest one, themselves. Yet other believe in a God that sent his only begotten Son to purchase eternal salvation availible to us all. Some thing about that sounds good to me, truth, justice and compassion and toilerance sounds awful good to. Haven't you noticed ?

Criminology:

I find the last sentence amusing, given your previous false, and unsourced ridiculous assertions that "atheists" cause disease, destruction, and death--I can only imagine you to be gleeful support of Christification camps for non-christians
.

ONEGod:
As for 'Christification camps', you confusing Communist methodology re-education camps with Christians who spend bilions a years to save unbelievers for the consequences (morality/unbelief)of their actions/beliefs.
Originally Posted by clirus

I believe in Democracy, Christianity and Capitalism.

Criminology:

No, you really do not believe in democracy.

This *IS* a democracy, and clearly you're unhappy with the way things are going. Compiled with what you are against, what you are troubled with, with your solutions and the "causes" of everything bad in society, it's pretty clear that you believe in Fascism.

ONEGod:
We have turned a long way from the prosperous and stable Judeo-Christian nation we once were. Turning away from God has consequences, know you not ?

Criminology:

Maybe Islam defines the right choice?

ONEGod:
If you think conversion by sword, rape is justified by belief, as is oppression, slavery, and lies are justifed when speaking to any unbeliever or someone that doesn't believe as 'good' as you. You find this equivalent ? Really ?

Criminology:
Maybe Judaism defines the right choice?

ONEGod:
Well if you so believe you still have to wait for Jesus, i don't want to wait for the second coming.

Criminology:
Maybe Mormonism defines the right choice?

ONEGod:
So what ?

Criminology:
Maybe hinduism defines the right choice?

ONEGod:
I'd rather eat cows tha worship them. You been worshipping cows lately ?

Criminology:
Maybe taoism defines the right choice?

ONEGod:
Not even interested in what ever they are selling.

Criminology:
This country is prosperity. You're not happy with it, you're not happy with democracy OR the prosperity that it brings. You want change, you want to force your beliefs onto others. You want fascism.

ONEGod:
Are you trying to say people have to follow you so you can" force your beliefs onto others. You want fascism."

Criminology:

Every leader in history(including the most notorious) did "positive" things. All the OP wanted to know was some positive things by the Bush Administration. You could have substituted Adolf Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, and the ilk instead of "The Bush Administration" and achieved the same "success" MachZer0. As all of those notorious leaderships did "positive" things for their countries.

ONEGod:
Yeah like outlaw God and decrease the surplus population. I haven't seen the Bush administration try to disarm the citizenry, take over the media, treat Christianity as a contaminate to government/society, so i'd say they really are on the + side, eh ?

Criminology:
History will only deem leaders successful if their positives outweigh the negatives. Has the bush administration done some positive things? Sure. Do those positive things outweigh the negative? No. Was this thread successful? Sure. Was the Bush Administration Successful? No.

ONEGod:
Stalin was successful and yet the Russians got rid af a great many rememberances of him now that he is gone. Your floundering.
By the way, was it you intent to be comic relief today or were you trying to be serious ? I come from German parents and never liked what those of the old country did.
 
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dlamberth

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Support Bush Administration by listing their achievement that ultimately benefit American people (all, nobody left behind).
Enlighten those who do not know true face of current line of presidency.
I cannot begin since I do not know a thing about them that would "satisfy my hunger for justice"
but please, help me.
I hate criticizing while not praising their achievements.
The best achievement of this administration is that they are a living example of everything we don't like in an American presidency.

.
 
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ParsonJefferson

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The last thing you want is freedom. You want a totalitarian controlled society where everyone is forced to accept your Truth®. To adhere to your ®eligion, or face the consequences. You one and the same with the political and religious ideology of germany in the late 1930's. Ironically enough, you are one in the same in your beliefs with radical muslim terrorists. You want to force people to believe as you do. I find your masturbatory fantasies revolting. Quite frankly, I hate them. Keep them to yourself.

Wow. :scratch:
 
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clirus

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I agree with everything you say about Capitalism and that is why Christian Principles are essential to keep Capitalism from devouring the people.

Capitalism produces unequal prosperity, but socialism produces equal poverty.

Almost every nation in the world has accepted Capitalism as the economic system. No other system works, so Capitalism is going to exist. If you accept that Capitalism is a fact of life, then you must find a way to live with Capitalism.

I believe Christian Principles as practiced by individuals will keep the excesses of Capitalism from being excessive.

I believe America has been prosperous because of the combination of Democracy, Christianity and Capitalism. America may not have a perfect government, but it is better than all the others.
 
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clirus

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MachZer0 quote

This thread started by asking for positive things Bush has done. The positive was clearly demonstrated. The goal posts then moved to ask if there was anybody who likes Bush. That also has been clearly demonstrated and should go without saying. Over all, this has been a successful thread despite the several hijack attempts.

Response

When I read the part about hijacking attempts, I felt guilty.

I have written a lot about Christianity, but I believe the hate toward of President Bush is because of President Bush stating he was a Christian and supporting Christian Principles.

If I can find time I will write three discussions as new threads;

1) How the Republican party supports Christian Principles

2) How the Democratic party opposes Christian Principles

3) How the Atheistic Liberal News Media biases the news to support Democrats and oppose Republicans.

I believe I can establish a clear pattern that the hate toward President Bush has much more to do with President Bush's support for Christian Principles than the Iraq War, New Orleans, etc.
 
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