Supererogation Allocations: Indulgences Attrocious

[dpartlow]

Didn't Mary Poppins say this?

Seriously, I write this not out of disdain for the Catholic church – for I love all fellow Christians and members of the bride of Christ – but as a warning against a specific doctrine which is itself un-biblical....

From the depths and lofty heights
He catches a quarry in his sights.
Now descends the veritable Pterodactyl
His clutch – a greedy reflex tactile
His catch’s belly then he bites

In truth he’s less a beaked Pteradon
Than jewler to the Tiara’d Don
But No matter to his peaked prey
On the morrow they would pay
He sat down at the table where upon…

Engorged with pils-and-pretzle-bloatus
Out the Indulgences, Tetzel wrote us.
Engaged by Albrecht and Pope Leo
Were we shaken-down by this Trio
Of This Dominican Quetzelcoat’us?

But did paying this Gigantoraptor
Make a supererogation allocation any apter?
“As soon as the coin in coffer rings
The soul at once to Heaven springs.'
Or was this trio taken-down by their Captor?

The most famous of Martin Luther’s 95 Theses
'Those who believe that they can be certain of their salvation because they have indulgence letters will be eternally damned, together with their teachers.' (32) 'It is vain to trust in salvation by indulgence letters, even though the indulgence commissary, or even the Pope, were to offer his soul as security.' (52)

Based in part on 1 Peter: 18-19
'You know that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.”

 

[GeratTzedek]

Do you believe that doing certain things will bring you closer to G-d? Closer to his will? Purify you and bring you into a deeper holiness? Those things are what indulgences are -- its simply that the Catholic church recognizes them. Stop being so prejudiced to things outside your culture. The only outrage was the SALE of indulgences, which the Catholic Church itself stopped.

 

[Tonks]

It's getting close to "Reformation Day" so this is pretty much about par for the course.

 

[Melethiel]

It's getting close to "Reformation Day" so this is pretty much about par for the course.

Well technically, while Reformation Day is tomorrow, most churches observed it this past Sunday...

 

[simonthezealot]

They deny the atoning nature of Christs sacrifice on the cross IMHO! furthermore I think that the notion of temporal punishment as a legal debt is flawed from the start. The only "temporal punishment" is the pain involved in detaching ourselves from sin.

 

[simonthezealot]

The woman in the Gospel of Luke 7:36-50 was forgiven by faith. Jesus said to her, “Your faith has saved you. Go in peace.”
The woman loved the Lord Jesus; she wept, kissed his feet, and anointed them with ointment.
Did she do so to pay the debt of temporal punishment? Or because she was grateful to the mercy and goodness of the Lord who had forgiven her sins?
Clearly, nothing could keep her from expressing her jubilant love to Christ who had forgiven and received her. The Christian life – including prayers, good works and patient suffering - is the grateful response to the goodness of God who forgives us all our debt.

 

[dpartlow]

Do you believe that doing certain things will bring you closer to G-d? Closer to his will? Purify you and bring you into a deeper holiness? Those things are what indulgences are -- its simply that the Catholic church recognizes them. Stop being so prejudiced to things outside your culture. The only outrage was the SALE of indulgences, which the Catholic Church itself stopped.

Nothing wrong with acts which, as you say, bring one closer to God. Fasting, prayer... but the concept of allocating other 'saints' supererogation - which is the theological underpinning - is simply unbiblical.

If I'm wrong - please give me the verses on which you base your dispute.

 

[simonthezealot]

Do you believe that doing certain things will bring you closer to G-d? Closer to his will? Purify you and bring you into a deeper holiness? Those things are what indulgences are -- its simply that the Catholic church recognizes them. .

I don't think you understand what Rome says about indulgences!

#1498 - “Through indulgences the faithful can obtain the remission of temporal punishment resulting from sin for themselves and also for the souls in Purgatory.”
SEEMS CONTRADICTORY TO SCRIPTURE>>>

Acts 13:38 - Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

Ephesians 1:7 - In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Colossians 1:14 - In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: