Sunday school lesson

[MMXII]

I have to teach the adult Sunday school class on the 15th. I'm having some problems getting my noodle around the scripture lesson for that day. The reason being...I'm a female.

[BIBLE]1 Timothy 3:1-15[/BIBLE]

If you don't mind, can you give me your input on this. Do you think these scriptures are valid in today's society? Do you agree with having females holding high positions in the church, even as a pastor? What if a person is divorced, should they be able to hold a high position in the church? Should background investigations be done on perspective leaders?

Thanks y'all for any and all help on this. Plus, please pray for Godly guidance as I don't feel adequate in teaching this lesson.

 

[mesue]

If you don't mind, can you give me your input on this.

OK, I am called to stand, and stand I will. Please keep in mind that I prefer to keep the "mental" in my fundamentalism

Do you think these scriptures are valid in today's society?

I think all scripture is valid for today's society. Even the ones that sting.

Do you agree with having females holding high positions in the church, even as a pastor?

My Bible tells me that my husband is my head. I cannot be a pastor and be married. That would make me head over my husband and that contradicts the Bible.

What if a person is divorced, should they be able to hold a high position in the church?

I think it would have to be a decision of the pastor and deacons. I could be divorced because I was unequally yoked, that's Biblical grounds for divorce, as are other things.

Should background investigations be done on perspective leaders?

Absolutely. As christians we are called to live beyond reproach. The results of a background check would not necessarily prevent someone from serving in the church, just in areas of great temptation. I certainly wouldn't want a "former" pedophile teaching Jr. Church, but that couldn't stop that person from serving in a recovery group. (having worked in max jails I am thouroughly convinced that pedophiles are never "former")

Thanks y'all for any and all help on this. Plus, please pray for Godly guidance as I don't feel adequate in teaching this lesson.

I'm praying for you, that it is God's words that touch the hearts of your students and yours as well. I am convinced that what ever you teach it will be done in truth, grace and love. What more could one ask for in a teacher?

 

[MMXII]

Bless your heart Sue. Thank you for your input. you are a true Sister.

 

[Mela'h]

Wow Jan, that is a hard scripture to teach about. I agree with Sue but I would like to add that God's grace and redemptiveness always has to be applied in all situations - if not, we hold people to the course of their lives BEFORE they met Jesus and don't allow them freedom from it when God has. This reminds me of my favorite quote - "Biblical orthodoxy without compassion is surely one of the ugliest things in the world." I've been to chuches of both extremes and "ugly" is a good word to describe orthodoxy without compassion.

I'm praying for you that God would give you the words and the insight you need and that he would speak to hearts through you and that God would be lifted up through the message. And of course for peace and courage for you too Jan

 

[MMXII]

Thank you Cookie. your prayers are very welcome.

 

[FlatpickingJD]

FWIW, I struggled w/this passage too. I don't speak for my Church on this issue, and I humbly accept and follow their teachings, so take this at face value as little more than my take on your questions.

I agree w/mesue that all teachings in the Bible are valid. But like cookieboo says, we cannot judge what someone's life was before they came to Christ Jesus.

The previous sentences to your Sunday teaching say that a woman is to be silent when around her man, and must be submissive in all things and cannot teach. (1 Tim. 2:11-12). That would preclude even doing the Sunday School teachings. I think the very next sentence blames women for all society's current ills, too (that's my reading of it)

If we take the Bible literally, at every turn, I think we wind up w/a requirement that all priests, ministers, pastors, etc., have to be Jews.

I personally don't have a problem w/women holding high positions in the Church. We have female Lay Extraordinary Ministers (I think that's what they're called; I'm horrible w/names) and no one has any problems w/that. The Church has said in the past that women cannot be priests or even deacons because the laity would be scandalized. I think we're scandalized by other things that happen w/in the Church and in its name more than we would be by having women in high positions. Not only that, if women were put in high positions by the Church by virtue of the Church blessing them w/those positions, it would be accepted by the laity. For me, personally, it comes down to the simple question of whether the particular woman in question knows Christ and the Scripture and is able to spread His word effectively.

Not only that, but the purest followers of Christ were the Blessed Mother and Mary Magdalene. Remember who Jesus first appeared to when He rose on the 3rd day, and how the men didn't believe her. Women are CRUCIAL to the church.

I also have no problems w/divorced people, male or female, holding high office. Unless I know the person, I won't know what led to the divorce. For example, I have to think God does not want people to remain in abusive marriages or those where the children are endangered in any way.

I'm not sure what you meant by background investigations. As mesue said, investigations should be done to ensure no one w/a past that could endanger children should be allowed near children. The only other investigation that should be done is to ensure the person is godly, has Christ in his/her heart, and is effective at spreading His love and word. Again, just my opinion and not that of anyone or anything else.

 

[MMXII]

JD, thank you so much for you insight as well. It's good to have a man's standpoint on this.

(Shame I can't change lessons with one of the guys )

Our District Superintendent is a female, her husband is a minister also. I've heard them both preach and I would rather hear him then her. I don't know why, I just can't feel comfortable with a female minister. Lay leaders...fine, Sunday school teachers...fine, it just seems that the female ministers that I've heard preach act as if they have a chip on their shoulders or something to prove. God forgive me if I'm wrong but if I'm hearing what Paul is writing here, I'm not.

 

[Tattered]

J, I don't know how your 'teaching' system works for your class, but I know that I would encourage discussion. One way to do that is to split people up in groups and give each group all the questions or each group a different question and let them tackle it themselves. Then you can have each group in turn share their insight. Personally I enjoy this sort of class because you get all sorts of different perspectives.

Our church is fairly traditional in that Men have headship in the church as far as pastoral and elder positions, but we have some brilliant women teachers. The pastor's wife is one of them. I could listen to her for hours. As far as divorce ... it's a case by case basis, I think.

 

[MMXII]

Tat, I agree with you, the discussion classes work best for me as well. We have a small class, only around 20-25 people. Ages range from early 30's to well into the 80's so they are a diverse bunch of folk. I may give that a go with this lesson. I normally don't have a problem teaching but I guess with this subject it's a bit difficult for me.

Thank you for your input.

 

[JJB]

Our church has no women pastors or elders. I think they are very biblical in that regard. The husband of one wife is sometimes interpreted as being a faithful husband -- no philanderers need apply.

If you look at the passage as a whole, it looks to me like the pastor/elder/teacher needs to be walking his faith actively. A faithful husband, children who are Godly, not a new believer who can be more easily deceived. Head knowledge for the leaders is to be lived out! Who wants a leader who says "Do what I say, not what I do"?

Anyway, hope that gives a little different spin on a few things.

 

[MMXII]

That does JJB, thank you so much.

 

[FlatpickingJD]

* bump *

so . . . how'd the discussion go? what did people have to say?

 

[MMXII]

It's next Sunday but thanks for asking. I'll let you know.

 

[MMXII]

The whole Sunday school session went awesome!! Thank God

We discussed so much stuff that I actually went over the time. I was going to make some more points and looked at the clock and it was 11:10, we usually get done around 11. The class wasn't that big today but most everyone participated. I love discussion classes. I did add all of your input too, which added to the lesson.

Thank you all for your prayers and support. I'll have to get out my next lesson out and ask your input. You all are blessings thank you.

 

[Mela'h]

That's wonderful new Jan Praise God it went so well. I know, don't you just love it when a lesson inspires a lot of discussion? Just wanted to let you know that I am thanking God along with you

Our sermon today was about being available for God to use and if you're available, God will be faithful - doesn't have a thing to do with your capabilities, but has everything to do with God's. Very applicable hey?

 

[MMXII]

It sure is Cookie. My friend uses a quote and I don't know who to credit. "God doesn't call the qualified, He qualifies the called."