Sunday Keeping Mark of the Beast?

[MidnightCry]

Greetings mrasell,

You are mixing your beasts up. And you only have six kingdoms listed. There should be seven. Seven stands for completeness.

For example, in Daniel and Revelation there are seven kingdoms, seven heads, seven eyes, seven horns, seven thunders, seven seals, seven trumpets, seven churches, seven bowls and seven angels who stand before God.

Consider our physical world, there are seven continents, seven colors in the rainbow, seven notes in our musical scale, seven days in a week, and Jesus spoke seven times when He was on the cross. Seven is God's signature.

The seven kingdoms presented in Daniel 2 declare a finished plan. The seven kingdoms presented in Daniel 2 consist of six kingdoms governed by men and an eternal kingdom governed by God. The climax of the vision is when God Destroys the kingdoms of men before He establishes His kingdom on Earth.

Babylon --- Gold--- Head
Medo-Persia --- Silver --- Chest
Grecia --- Bronze --- Thighs
Rome --- Iron --- Legs
Many Kings --- Iron/Clay --- Feet
10 Kings --- Iron/Clay --- Toes
Jesus --- Rock --- Eternal

We are living in the time of the feet or many kings. There are many different governments and countries at this time. Some are strong and some are weak, thus the iron and clay. The ten kings will arise when Lucifer sets up his kingdom after He destroys all nations and all religions on Earth. Then Jesus will come and destroy Him once and for all.

Are you reading my posts? You are not answering my questions.

YSIC,
MidnightCry

 

[MidnightCry]

mrasell,

here is a post from the thread "God sends a destroyer." Please read it.
Also, I would like to add that the horn power in Daniel 7 is a persecuting power. The horn power in Daniel 8 is a destroying power. They are different and each have a different purpose.



Greetings Epoisses,

You are correct. Lucifer is called Abaddon in Hebrew and Apollyon in Greek. Both titles mean the same thing: Lucifer is the ultimate destroyer. His title is stated in Hebrew and Greek so that the saints (like the Jews in the inner court) and the wicked (like the Gentiles in the outer court) both can understand who he truly is.

Daniel and Revelation both tell us a destroyer is coming. I wanted to look at Daniel first, specifically Daniel Chapter 8. Daniel 8:1-12 focuses on three symbols: a ram, a goat and a horn power. Because the Bible is its own interpreter, it provides the meaning of these symbols. The ram represents the kingdom of Medo-Persia. (Daniel 5:28;8:20). The two horns of the ram represent the co-regent reign of two kings, the king of the Medes and the king of the Persians. The higher horn (the greater king) represents the Persian side of this kingdom. The higher horn of the ram in Daniel 8:3 also aligns with the "higher shoulder" of the bear in Daniel 7:5.

The second symbol, the goat, represents the kingdom of Grecia. (Daniel 8:21). The great horn represents the first prominent king of the Grecian empire. History reveals this king was Alexander the Great, who died in the prime of his life. The four horns that replaced the great horn represent four generals that eventually gained control of Alexander's empire.

What does the third symbol, the horn power, represent?

In Daniel 8, the two beasts represent empires, but the horns of the ram and of the goat represent kings. This distinction is important, because the horn power in this vision is not attached to a beast (world empire). Also, the Bible says this horn power is a king. (Daniel 8:23). Daniel was told this king will exalt himself to be as great as the Prince of the host, Jesus Christ. The horn power in Daniel 8 is a stern-faced king that will rule over Earth during the Great Tribulation. (Daniel 11:36) This coming king is the Antichrist, Lucifer, who will dazzle the world with his power, authority, and ability to perform incredible miracles. The dreaded Antichrist will not be a mere man. The coming Antichrist will be Lucifer, appearing in the flesh, masquerading as an angel of light, claiming to be Almighty God.

The Bible predicts that God will allow Lucifer and his angels to appear in physical form visible to the human race. Just as Jesus became a man to save the world, Lucifer will be granted authority to masquerade as God so that he can quickly lead the wicked to their destruction.

This horn power in Daniel 8 is not attached to any beast. This horn does not rise out of a world empire. It appears from out of nowhere, "out of the four winds," specifically, out of the north. The north is prophetically important because it is often said in Scripture that divine wrath comes out of the north.The horn that just appears out of the north represents a "stern faced king" that will appear and overtake the world "when rebels have become completely wicked" (verse23).

Also, Gabriel told Daniel that this vision concerns the appointed time of the end which occurs after the 2,300 day/years expire in 1844. Thus, the horn in this vision will appear on Earth after 1844--at the appointed time of the end.

YSIC,
MidnightCry

 

[mrasell]

Greetings mrasell,

You are mixing your beasts up. And you only have six kingdoms listed. There should be seven. Seven stands for completeness.

For example, in Daniel and Revelation there are seven kingdoms, seven heads, seven eyes, seven horns, seven thunders, seven seals, seven trumpets, seven churches, seven bowls and seven angels who stand before God.

Consider our physical world, there are seven continents, seven colors in the rainbow, seven notes in our musical scale, seven days in a week, and Jesus spoke seven times when He was on the cross. Seven is God's signature.

The seven kingdoms presented in Daniel 2 declare a finished plan. The seven kingdoms presented in Daniel 2 consist of six kingdoms governed by men and an eternal kingdom governed by God. The climax of the vision is when God Destroys the kingdoms of men before He establishes His kingdom on Earth.

Babylon --- Gold--- Head
Medo-Persia --- Silver --- Chest
Grecia --- Bronze --- Thighs
Rome --- Iron --- Legs
Many Kings --- Iron/Clay --- Feet
10 Kings --- Iron/Clay --- Toes
Jesus --- Rock --- Eternal

We are living in the time of the feet or many kings. There are many different governments and countries at this time. Some are strong and some are weak, thus the iron and clay. The ten kings will arise when Lucifer sets up his kingdom after He destroys all nations and all religions on Earth. Then Jesus will come and destroy Him once and for all.

Are you reading my posts? You are not answering my questions.

YSIC,
MidnightCry

The prophecy of Daniel 2 speaks of four earthly kingdoms, in verse 40 it refers to the "fourth kingdom" which shall be as strong as iron.

There is no fifth kingdom, rather it says "the kingdom shall be divided" (verse 41). The iron of the fourth kingdom extends into the feet; the fourth kingdom is divided and weakened with no overall ruler. The toes are also part of "the kingdom" which again refers to the divided fourth kingdom. There is no reference to a fifth kingdom.

So we have four earthly kingdoms, then the fourth is divided, then there is God's kingdom.

The Roman army used iron swords, shields, armour, helmets, and in particular an iron spear “pilum” that could serve as a javelin. The iron symbolised its strength, Rome crushed and smashed other nations.

The Roman Empire was divided up by invading barbarians who occupied the same territory as Rome and formed approximately 10 tribes.

Commentators have compiled different lists but the following can be considered representative:
Ostrogoths, Visigoths, Franks, Vandals, Suevi, Alamanni, Anglo-Saxons, Heruli, Lombards, Burgundians.

In Daniel 7, there are only four earthly kingdoms, and the ten horns are part of the terrible beast with iron teeth which crushes other nations. Thus the nations of Europe are a continuation of pagan Rome in a new divided form. Following the collapse of pagan Rome, papal Rome emerged over the nations of Europe.

Out of the ruins of political Rome arose the great moral Empire in the ‘giant form’ of the Roman Church.
(Alexander C. Flick, The Rise of the Mediaeval Church (New York: Burt Franklin, 1959), p. 150)

The identification of papal Rome is also confirmed by the 1260 day/year propechecy from 538-1798 AD.

The 3 Arian tribes (the Heruli, Vandals and Ostrogoths) stood in the way of the Bishop of Rome gaining supremacy.

These are the three horns of Daniel 7 that were uprooted. The Ostrogoths defeated the Heruli, and the Vandals were defeated in 534 which left only the Ostrogoths.

In AD 533 Emperor Justinian who resided in Constantinople recognised the Bishop of Rome rather than the Patriarch of Constantinople. Five years later his general Belisarius delivered Rome from the siege of the Ostrogoths, and this recognition as “the head of all the Holy Churches” came into effect in practical terms in AD 538.
(Code of Justinian, book 1, title 1, 8; titled 1, 4 in P. Scott, The Civil Law (Cincinnati: Central Trust Company, 1932), vol. 12, p. 12)

Though the campaign against the Ostrogoths lasted for 20 years, the decisive victory occurred early on. The Ostrogoths were driven from Rome and returned in 537. The siege lasted a full year, Justinian brought in another army to Italy in 538 and the Ostrogoths abandoned the siege. (Hodgkin, Italy and Her Invader vol. 4, pp 73-113, 210-252. Diehl, “Justinian” in Cambridge Medieval History, vol. 2. p. 15)

In 1689 AD an English prophetic interpreter Drue Cressener (1638-1718) predicted that the end of the 1260 days of Rev 11-13 would end about the year 1800 (Suppositions and Theorems,” The Judgment of God Upon the Roman Catholik Church). He applied the symbol of the beast to the papacy. In 1798 the Pope was deposed by Napoleon.

The little horn of Daniel 7 is said to speak arrogantly (verse 8, 11), he has eyes which signify intelligence, he was greater than the others (verse 20), made war against the saints until the time of judgment was given in
favour of the saints and they possessed the Kingdom (verse 22). It spoke words against the Most High (verse 25), attempted to change sacred seasons and the law (verse 25) which is the attempt to change the Sabbath to Sunday.

The little horn in chapter 7 is identified by the following characteristics:

1. arrives after the 10 horns of the fourth beast, showing it arrives after pagan Rome
2. three horns plucked up – three of the European tribes were uprooted to make way for the papacy
3. has eyes like a man signifying intelligence
4. has a mouth speaking great things against God
5. persecutes the saints
6. has dominion for three and a half times (=1260 years)
7. attempts to change times and law (the Sabbath)
8. will be destroyed following a divine judgment

These identifying marks can only be applied to the papal Rome which arose after the collapse of pagan Rome, three horns were uprooted, it did persecute the saints and attempt to change God's law and claimed to be able to mediate the forgiveness of sin and be able to change God's law.

Marc

 

[mrasell]

mrasell,

here is a post from the thread "God sends a destroyer." Please read it.
Also, I would like to add that the horn power in Daniel 7 is a persecuting power. The horn power in Daniel 8 is a destroying power. They are different and each have a different purpose.



Greetings Epoisses,

You are correct. Lucifer is called Abaddon in Hebrew and Apollyon in Greek. Both titles mean the same thing: Lucifer is the ultimate destroyer. His title is stated in Hebrew and Greek so that the saints (like the Jews in the inner court) and the wicked (like the Gentiles in the outer court) both can understand who he truly is.

Daniel and Revelation both tell us a destroyer is coming. I wanted to look at Daniel first, specifically Daniel Chapter 8. Daniel 8:1-12 focuses on three symbols: a ram, a goat and a horn power. Because the Bible is its own interpreter, it provides the meaning of these symbols. The ram represents the kingdom of Medo-Persia. (Daniel 5:28;8:20). The two horns of the ram represent the co-regent reign of two kings, the king of the Medes and the king of the Persians. The higher horn (the greater king) represents the Persian side of this kingdom. The higher horn of the ram in Daniel 8:3 also aligns with the "higher shoulder" of the bear in Daniel 7:5.

The second symbol, the goat, represents the kingdom of Grecia. (Daniel 8:21). The great horn represents the first prominent king of the Grecian empire. History reveals this king was Alexander the Great, who died in the prime of his life. The four horns that replaced the great horn represent four generals that eventually gained control of Alexander's empire.

What does the third symbol, the horn power, represent?

In Daniel 8, the two beasts represent empires, but the horns of the ram and of the goat represent kings. This distinction is important, because the horn power in this vision is not attached to a beast (world empire). Also, the Bible says this horn power is a king. (Daniel 8:23). Daniel was told this king will exalt himself to be as great as the Prince of the host, Jesus Christ. The horn power in Daniel 8 is a stern-faced king that will rule over Earth during the Great Tribulation. (Daniel 11:36) This coming king is the Antichrist, Lucifer, who will dazzle the world with his power, authority, and ability to perform incredible miracles. The dreaded Antichrist will not be a mere man. The coming Antichrist will be Lucifer, appearing in the flesh, masquerading as an angel of light, claiming to be Almighty God.

The Bible predicts that God will allow Lucifer and his angels to appear in physical form visible to the human race. Just as Jesus became a man to save the world, Lucifer will be granted authority to masquerade as God so that he can quickly lead the wicked to their destruction.

This horn power in Daniel 8 is not attached to any beast. This horn does not rise out of a world empire. It appears from out of nowhere, "out of the four winds," specifically, out of the north. The north is prophetically important because it is often said in Scripture that divine wrath comes out of the north.The horn that just appears out of the north represents a "stern faced king" that will appear and overtake the world "when rebels have become completely wicked" (verse23).

Also, Gabriel told Daniel that this vision concerns the appointed time of the end which occurs after the 2,300 day/years expire in 1844. Thus, the horn in this vision will appear on Earth after 1844--at the appointed time of the end.

YSIC,
MidnightCry

The little horn of chapters 7 and 8 have a lot in common:
i. begin small, became great (7:8, 20; 8:9-10)
ii. blasphemous power (7:8, 25; 8:11, 25)
iii. persecute God's people (7:21, 25; 8:10, 25)
iv. destroyed by divine judgement (7:26; 8:25)

The little horn comes out of one of the four winds; it expands north, south and east so it must come from the west which is where Rome came from! (The Septuagint translation has “the north” rather than “the glory” which makes up the three points of the compass and fits the context of the four winds.

In Daniel 8, the little horn arises after Medo-Persia, so it must be Rome which came from the west. Then it becomes papal Rome in its attack against heaven. This is consistent with the earlier visions because there was only one fourth beast representing pagan and papal Rome.

In my book, "exploring the heavenly sanctuary", I've gone over Daniel 8 in more details, in chapter 9, "an attack on God's sanctuary".
Adventist Enterprises - HeavenlySanctuary3

Marc

 

[MidnightCry]

mrasell,

Thank you for your reply.

I like to think of Daniel as a timeline of kingdoms that tells the saints where we are in a span of time. Beginning with Babylon until the end of time, or the Second Coming of Christ.

So, according to your understanding of Daniel and the kingdoms, where are we on this timeline?

YSIC,
MidnightCry

 

[stinsonmarri]

mrasell,

Thank you for your reply.

I like to think of Daniel as a timeline of kingdoms that tells the saints where we are in a span of time. Beginning with Babylon until the end of time, or the Second Coming of Christ.

So, according to your understanding of Daniel and the kingdoms, where are we on this timeline?

YSIC,
MidnightCry

Why is it so hard to see that Daniel Chapter Two had nothing to do with Daniel Seven thru Twelve. The Children of Israel did not witness for Elohim at Jerusalem. YAHWEH was their King, but they wanted an earthly king. Samuel was upset and YAHWEH told Samuel to give them what they wanted. When the king disobeyed the majority of the nation fail into sin. YAHWEH all through time that is correct, has taken a few to do what the majority will not do witness. Nebuchadnezzar was a heathen king who wanted to know if his empire would last. Why? He is human and his son was nothing like him. YAHWEH reads the heart and He knew that this king was a good man and would eventual serve Him. He did but he had to learn some lessons. Which is what the first few Chapters were about. Neuchadnezzar had a dream and saw kingdoms more powerful in one since but also inferior in another. This was chronological order dealing with political powers who depended on their false idols or deities. YAHWEH showed clearly that He place the Hebrews in his hands to save him and some of his people.

What Daniel saw were not the same. These kingdoms Babylon, Persia, Greece has false religions that's why the beasts shown here are not known with these kingdoms. The beasts that have these beast symbols (except the lion) were different which is shown in chapter Eight. Rome was not the next beast it different the Bible says and that is true. Rome came out of Greece please read your history books. This beast Daniel saw is the same beast John saw only at different times. Why is that so heart for you all to understand. Rome like all of the world empire religions were a part of this beast:

(1)Assyria, (2)Egypt, (3)Babylon, (4)Persia, (5)Greece, (6-one that is during John day)Pagan Rome, (7-a short time to rule)Papacy Rome and finally the (8)beast. These are the seven heads and five did fail, one was and one had a short time to rule and finally the main head the beast himself. He is not Satan!

Why don't you look at the similarities
(Daniel)Burning flame, (Rev)lake of fire, (Dan)other beasts lives prolong for a season but domion or power take away, (Rev)birds eat the kings of the earth with the beast they died for a thousand years, they will wake up with Satan because the beast and the false prophet is already dead!!!!!!!!!!

The beast color is finally reveal which is scarlet or sinful. Who lead the beast was first shown to Daniel when the little stout horn became a head. It was the first of its kind to rule as an empire over other kingdom base on religion first, politic second. It was taken down place in its own prison and strip of some of its political power. Not all of its political power, the Catholic Church is the only church that has embassies and is a part of the United Nation, it also has a kingdom and it still rules. Presidents and kings of every nation still comes to the Vatican city. However it want to rule Jerusalem and she will very soon. When she does it will be the Time of Trouble. USA will turn away from its root and partner with the Beast/man. This eighth was once a Catholic but he turn against his church and most of all against Elohim. Satan does not own anything here but he does have a kingdom but not on earth. All of his angels cannot leave where they preside since they were kicked out of Heaven. Only Satan has free movement, but he too will be lock down during the thousand years in his kingdom some where out in space. His angels will be release from their prison to bring distruction on the earth this will begin the woes on this earth.

Here are the was, is not, but yet is:

Was Nimrod (Babylon original world empire only and the start of all major false religions); is not-the Papacy, yet is - the beast himself. This is your 666 because all three are man!!!!!!!

I urge you all to read both Daniel 7-12; Matt 24, 25; 2Thess 2; Jude 1:6 and all of Revelation.

Blessings,
stinsonmarri

 

[mrasell]

mrasell,

Thank you for your reply.

I like to think of Daniel as a timeline of kingdoms that tells the saints where we are in a span of time. Beginning with Babylon until the end of time, or the Second Coming of Christ.

So, according to your understanding of Daniel and the kingdoms, where are we on this timeline?

YSIC,
MidnightCry

In Daniel 2 in the iron and clay, the next thing is God's Kingdom being set up. We are very near the end because most lines of prophecy have been fulfilled and because of the state of things in the world.

Th official view or fundamental belief of the church, is that the end is imminent.

The second coming of Christ is the blessed hope of the church, the grand climax of the gospel. The Saviour's coming will be literal, personal, visible, and worldwide. When He returns, the righteous dead will be resurrected, and together with the righteous living will be glorified and taken to heaven, but the unrighteous will die. The almost complete fulfillment of most lines of prophecy, together with the present condition of the world, indicates that Christ's coming is imminent. The time of that event has not been revealed, and we are therefore exhorted to be ready at all times. (Titus 2:13; Heb. 9:28; John 14:1-3; Acts 1:9-11; Matt. 24:14; Rev. 1:7; Matt. 24:43, 44; 1 Thess. 4:13-18; 1 Cor. 15:51-54; 2 Thess. 1:7-10; 2:8; Rev. 14:14-20; 19:11-21; Matt. 24; Mark 13; Luke 21; 2 Tim. 3:1-5; 1 Thess. 5:1-6.)

Adventist.org: The Official Site of the Seventh-day Adventist world church

Marc

 

[MidnightCry]

In Daniel 2 in the iron and clay, the next thing is God's Kingdom being set up. We are very near the end because most lines of prophecy have been fulfilled and because of the state of things in the world.

Th official view or fundamental belief of the church, is that the end is imminent.


Adventist.org: The Official Site of the Seventh-day Adventist world church

Marc

Greetings Marc,

I now see why our views of the end time do not agree. I do not believe the Millerite interpretation of end time prophecy. In fact, I think the Millerites decided the world would end in 1844, therefore, they reasoned everything in Bible prophecy must be fulfilled prior to 1844. To make the Bible meet their prophetic needs, they researched history and invented "historical fulfillments."

When this didn't happen, members of what would become the SDA Church reexamined Miller's views and they made a few prophetic changes (during the period between 1844 and 1863). But this matter is a whole other topic for discussion.

Back to the timeline of Daniel, I, too, believe we are very near the end of time. However, I believe the "day of the Lord" is near. Not the actual appearing of Jesus Christ. I believe the return of Jesus occurs over a period of time; 1,335 days, to be exact. (Daniel 12:12)

According to Daniel 2, there is the kingdom of 1) Babylon; 2) Medes/Persian; 3) Greece; 4) Rome; 5) A divided kingdom; 6) Ten toes or ten kings; 7) God's kingdom (the rock).

We are living in the divided kingdom, made up of iron and clay, (the feet)some strong and some weak nations. Next, the great tribulation will occur, which begins with a great earthquake. Followed by the four trumpets. The fifth trumpet is the appearing of Satan. Satan will eventually set up His own kingdom, which is the kingdom of the ten toes. (This is also stated in Revelation 17:12)

"The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast."

Also, I have to stick with the number seven. It appears to be God's signature. It is everywhere throughout the Bible. I cannot see why it would be any different when it comes to the kingdoms of earth that are predicted in Daniel.

Like I said, the return of Jesus or the Second Coming is a period of time, not just one day. During that time, the gospel will go to all the world, the three angels message will go to all the world, Satan will appear as a destroyer king, there will be a Sabbath worship test; all people will be separated into two groups. Those who follow Jesus Christ and those who follow the beast. During the 1,335 days Jesus will save as many people as He can. We have a wonderful God who wants to reach out to the entire world with love and mercy and He has a wonderful plan to do just that!

YSIC,
MidnightCry