Suing Another Christian

[rickster58]

A couple who we thought were are good friends from church have turned out to be wolves in sheep's clothing. They have embezzled/stolen well over $50,000 from us. Unfortunately and inconveniently, the money has been stolen in the Philippines, where they were building a home for us untl their deception was discovered. My wife and I have been blessed financially and will recover form this, but they have also stolen substantial sums of money from those in the church who can ill afford it.

We can't really have them arrested, yet anyways. From what I've discerned from Scripture, we are to be at peace with our Brothers as much as possible, We've offered to meet with them privately, publicly, discuss it with elders/pastors, etc., but have been rebuffed every step of the way.

To make it even more interesting, they have left the church, but are stlll attending a Friday nite Filipino fellowship. So, being the great actors and con men that they are, they have turned a large portion of the congregation against us with their crocodile tears playing the victim.

It appears that these other victims have been brainwashed/intimidated by certain members of the group. They believe, correctly, that this couple is not our enemy, as our adversary is the devil. So therefore, the twisted logic follows, no need to pursue recourse or justice. There are consequences for our actions, and my wife and I believe that these people must must be stopped.

So we plan on suing them, if nothing else but to put the heat on and stop then from taking advantage of others. They are not green card holders and will possibly return to the Phiilppines rather than face a lawsuit. I say "great", the sooner they leave the better.

Thoughts, Scripture, and opinions anyone?

Cheers!

 

[lisah]

Would you sue them if they were not "Christians"?

What would be your expectation of the outcome? Will others join you?

You know what. I think I would find another church. If there are none to be found, practice your religion at home.

 

[Eudaimonist]

So we plan on suing them, if nothing else but to put the heat on and stop then from taking advantage of others.

Sounds good. Forgive them in your heart, but make sure they learn the error of their ways.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[rickster58]

Agreed, Mark--Thanks. That is the route we have chosen. Of couse the forgiveness part is the challenge. Easie when I am focused on the things of Heaven and not of this Earth.

 

[Saint Andrew]

this is a tought one i realize that you need to forgive. but i also realize that they need to be punished. i also realize that God also sees this and will deal with this couple. but you must also realize that you will be paying a lot more when you go to court. i would pray for the answer to your problem and let god handle it or direct you to it.

 

[Followers4christ]

Check out this link that answers this question biblically: Christian Lawsuit - Should Christian Arguments Be Settled in Court Lawsuits?

Also read these scriptures that talk about this issue and pray about it. What honors God more you taking him or not taking him to court?

1 Corinthians 6:1-7 If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lord’s people? Or do you not know that the Lord’s people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, do you ask for a ruling from those whose way of life is scorned in the church? I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? But instead, one brother takes another to court—and this in front of unbelievers! The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated?

1 Corinthians 6:19-20 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

Matthew 6:14-15 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Paul's advice was for Christians to work things out to avoid shame coming upon all Christians. You have offered to do this but they have refused. To avoid the shame they will bring by continuing to scam others, you need to bring them to justice.

 

[drobbyb]

So I guess the main problem here is whether or not they actually are Christian. It's not really our place to judge whether or not someone is a Christian, but we can observe their behavior and actions.

Luk 6:43 "A good tree does not produce bad fruit. And a bad tree does not produce good fruit.
Luk 6:44 Every tree is known by the kind of fruit it produces. You won't find figs on thorny weeds. And you can't pick grapes from thornbushes!
Luk 6:45 Good people have good things saved in their hearts. That's why they say good things. But those who are evil have hearts full of evil, and that's why they say things that are evil. What people say with their mouths comes from what fills their hearts.


Joh 15:1 Jesus said, "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.
Joh 15:2 He cuts off every branch of mine that does not produce fruit. He also trims every branch that produces fruit to prepare it to produce even more.
Joh 15:3 You have already been prepared to produce more fruit by the teaching I have given you.
Joh 15:4 Stay joined to me and I will stay joined to you. No branch can produce fruit alone. It must stay connected to the vine. It is the same with you. You cannot produce fruit alone. You must stay joined to me.
Joh 15:5 "I am the vine, and you are the branches. If you stay joined to me, and I to you, you will produce plenty of fruit. But separated from me you won't be able to do anything.
Joh 15:6 If you don't stay joined to me, you will be like a branch that has been thrown out and has dried up. All the dead branches like that are gathered up, thrown into the fire and burned.
Joh 15:7 Stay joined together with me, and follow my teachings. If you do this, you can ask for anything you want, and it will be given to you.
Joh 15:8 Show that you are my followers by producing much fruit. This will bring honor to my Father.


But don't forget that we have to love our neighbors and enemies.

Lev 19:18 Forget about the wrong things people do to you. Don't try to get even. Love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.

Mat 5:42 Give to anyone who asks you for something. Don't refuse to give to anyone who wants to borrow from you.
Mat 5:43 "You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
Mat 5:44 But I tell you, love your enemies. Pray for those who treat you badly.
Mat 5:45 If you do this, you will be children who are truly like your Father in heaven. He lets the sun rise for all people, whether they are good or bad. He sends rain to those who do right and to those who do wrong.
Mat 5:46 If you love only those who love you, why should you get a reward for that? Even the tax collectors do that.
Mat 5:47 And if you are nice only to your friends, you are no better than anyone else. Even the people who don't know God are nice to their friends.
Mat 5:48 What I am saying is that you must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.


With Love
Robby

 

[citizenthom]

The Biblical model regarding disputes among Christians regards moral wrongs, not criminal wrongs. And when someone commits a criminal act directly against the Church, that is pretty good evidence that they will not submit to the church even regarding the moral wrong.

If this is a case of literal embezzlement, then you should pursue criminal charges against these people. Even if it is only a civil wrong, I do not believe you would be out of line Biblically to sue them.

 

[lookoutman7]

Let's not pussyfoot around with things -- this is not like our 'justice systems.' The world's system -- not God's.

These people are ultimately...'not' Christians. Because if they 'truly' were, these games would not be played by believers. If they have done what you say. There is no sense in them going to 'any' fellowship. Their evil ways are being recorded by God. (They are worse of than an unbeliever. Because they are supposed to know the truth.) Outcasts really...they are.

Let's put aside all this casual Christian forgiveness thing...at times. The truth and reality remain -- how things should be 'realistically' dealt with. Toss out the immoral brother or sister. Otherwise their poison will do just that -- poison real avenues of the flock.

Have I been there -- yes! A supposed 'good' Christian friend, stole our boys' coin collection amongst other things. Then the fellow was put on suicide watch at the hospital because of his life -- a different church hiding the older teenager. I was told, that if I pursued this through the justice system -- this may push him over the edge. All I'll say is, that a christian doesn't rob from another christian. We pushed -- things were made right. And after a few years of dire straights, this individual was dead. (A real christian -- no.) Can't help the complete lost.

 

[Saving Hawaii]

Wow.