Suicide???

[d0c markus]

It's an interesting article, but it starts off with a false statement. Sampson committed suicide and he was looked very favorably upon. Besides that I agree with the article, we will be "responsible" for the sin that we leave unconfessed and clearly suicide can not be confessed due to its permanance. The question then becomes does our sin label us unsaved creatures. I interpret from scripture that it does not. By GRACE we are saved through FAITH in Jesus Christ and in His redeeming blood and ressurection. Your next thought would then be how could someoen that believes that commit suicide, and my responce is that even though we are Christians, we will still fall short of the glory of God. We will still mess up. God's view of sin is a broad view. ALL sin separates us from Him that is Holy, but Jesus Christ is the bridge for that gap, no matter what is in the gap, Jesus is the bridge. I'm not in any sense of the discussion condoning suicide or my dad's actions, but merely stating that Christians are in a great battle over there own mind and heart and just because we fall does not mean that we have fallen out of God's reach.

Blessings,

FOMWatts<><

I am breathing new life into this thread for one quick reason. I was reading my bible the other day and stumbled across a verse in hebrews concerning samson.

HEB 11:32 And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, Samuel and the prophets, 33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies. 35 Women received back their dead, raised to life again. Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection. 36 Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison. 37 They were stoned; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated-- 38 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground.

HEB 11:39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised.

Now while these verses mentions other bible greats, it just reminded me of this thread. So i thought i'd post it in this thread.

Are these people not in heaven according to verse 11:39. Whats it mean?

 

[Peter North]

As far as I've been taught, you still go to heaven. But suicide is murder. It's just murdering yourself.

 

[FOMWatts<><]

I am breathing new life into this thread for one quick reason. I was reading my bible the other day and stumbled across a verse in hebrews concerning samson.

HEB 11:32 And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, Samuel and the prophets, 33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies. 35 Women received back their dead, raised to life again. Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection. 36 Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison. 37 They were stoned; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated-- 38 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground.

HEB 11:39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised.

Now while these verses mentions other bible greats, it just reminded me of this thread. So i thought i'd post it in this thread.

Are these people not in heaven according to verse 11:39. Whats it mean?

Can't believe I missed this one. This verse is not even referring to Heaven, it is referring to physical occurences and promises God made to these people on earth. The PROMISED LAND. Moses was kept out because he disobeyed God, and Sampson was kept out, well because he died. I see no reference to Heaven or no way of imagining Moses, a friend to God, as not being in Heaven.

FOM<><

 

[McCravey]

Jesus in effect said. "no one takes my life from me, I give it freely"

Sounds a little like suicide---in a sense. That's why we say "The life I live I live not for myself but for the one who bought me" suicide in a sense.

Let's be more suicidal and die a little more to ourselves today.

Let's bend over to help and serve those that need us---let our time be not our own but His to do with as he pleases.

And when someone tries to destroy us--let them.

When someone tries to kill us, slander us, say all kinds of evil about us--all the better!

When their barbs rip and tear our flesh--let it go--don't cling to it--it's just flesh!

 

[d0c markus]

Jesus in effect said. "no one takes my life from me, I give it freely"

Sounds a little like suicide---in a sense. That's why we say "The life I live I live not for myself but for the one who bought me" suicide in a sense.

Let's be more suicidal and die a little more to ourselves today.

Let's bend over to help and serve those that need us---let our time be not our own but His to do with as he pleases.

And when someone tries to destroy us--let them.

When someone tries to kill us, slander us, say all kinds of evil about us--all the better!

When their barbs rip and tear our flesh--let it go--don't cling to it--it's just flesh!

yea but jesus's death was not self inflicted. Suicide is death by your own hand.

 

[Hands&Feet]

Yeah, kick a man when he's down. That's my Jesus all right. No. I don't think so. My Jesus is a God who loves unconditionally and knows full well the pain some must suffer on this earth and would NEVER forsake any because the troubles of this world took them down even though they knew Him. Anyone who could conceive of such a thing is living by their own yet untested self righteous works--not in faith of the finished work of my Savior. I pity them for what God may have to allow in their lives to teach them that mercy triumphs over judgment. If His sacrifice was not sufficient to cover a man when he was down and out, then it is certainly not sufficient enough to cover yours and my sins of judgmentalism.
We don't need theology to scare people out of committing suicide, we need to extend the unconditional love of God to them in hope that they won't. I've known the hearts of a few who could not carry on in this life , but who served their Lord mightily until Satan had his way with them. It is a real battle out here and some will suffer death in this life in the midst of battle. But thanks be to our Lord Jesus Christ, who has given us victory over the grave!!

 

[d0c markus]

hmm.. right on.

 

[aanjt]

yea but jesus's death was not self inflicted. Suicide is death by your own hand.

Not quite. Have you heard of "suicide by cop"? If a guy pulls out a gun (although he isn't going to shoot it) and aims it at a police officer, the police officer shoots him in defense, since he doesn't know what the other person's intentions are. In some situations as this, they call it suicide by cop. The person committed suicide, but let someone else do the work for them.

Also, even though you may have read alot on suicide, unless you have experienced it, you really don't know what a person goes through. There is a chemical imbalance in the brain. To say that a person who is suicidal is not trusting God is pure horse hockey. When I was suicidal, I begged God to help me. Well, he did in the end, but it was sometime after I was hospitalized. To say that a person is not reaching out to God is diminishing what that person is going through and the faith that they have. What kept me alive for so long, and not trying to commit suicide before the day I had planned, was my faith. It wasn't a lack of my faith that led me to that decision several years ago. I still had strong faith. I was in so much pain that at that time, death would have been a blessing, in my mind.

Reading about suicide and experiencing it are two completely different things. Sorta like, would you have someone do brain surgery on you just because they've read about it or would you want someone who has had experience with it. The thing about telling people (I don't know if this was you or another poster) that someone who wants to commit suicide isn't saved is that you are pushing them further into that despair and telling them by your words that God does not love them or care for them. You have to be careful what you say to someone who wants to commit suicide. Very careful. Besides that, it is passing judgment on that person. Telling someone that they are saved because they have suicidal tendencies, you are damning them to hell. Jesus is the one that saves us, not any one else. In scripture, it states that nothing can seperate us from the love of God. That includes suicide. I believe that those who have committed suicide and even died in the faith that Jesus was cradling them in his arms when they died and did not send them into more torment.

Yours in Christ,
Jen

 

[d0c markus]

once saved always saved is debateable. I do not subscribe to it. However the argument of suicide in grace is plausible. I have done some contemplating on this since this thread as it is an older one.

Jesus knew his death was his destiny, there was know going around it. Calling it suicide, or suicide by cop i dunno bout that. Its a fine line. If suicide is a sin, then jesus sinned which is not possible. There are 2 trains of thought now: 1. suicide is not a sin. 2 suicide is a sin. Im going with suicide is a sin because murder is a sin. I think we could all logically come to that conclusion.

I think what needs to be taken into consideration since our god is a fair and just God, is the mental status of that person. Which thats hard to debate since we can not truley know the mind of the individual.

 

[Hands&Feet]

I have no problem calling it sin. It just troubles me when we turn it into an eternal condemnation. I just kicked my cat for peeing on the bathmat. Unquestionably a sin. I was angry. Jesus would have displayed much more self control than I exhibited. But He isn't going to send me to hell for it.
I led one of my life-long best friends to Christ. He was clinically depressed and had gone to various secular psychotherapy specialists. His life was simply put: Hell on earth. It was unbelievable how much bad luck this guy hadhis entire 40 years on earth. But, he grew in the Lord. He embraced his salvation with passion.
Then things started going wrong again--really wrong. He had satanic neighbors who told them they had cursed him. They tormented him and badgered him and mocked his conversion and laughed at his depresssion. He lost his job and his girlfriend.
He called me on a thursday while I was on the road. I told him I would be home Sunday night and would take him to a Christian clinic I knew about a couple of states away on the following Monday. He was ready to sign himself in. We never made it.
On halloween morning, according to the coroner at 3AM, he drank a gallon of anti freeze and slit both wrists.
It was a sin. If he could see how much pain and sorrow it has caused everyone he left behind, he would agree. But, when his defenses were down, he couldn't do it any more. I have no doubt that he is with Jesus. If not, then I guess his blood is on my hands because I am the one who told him about the unconditional love and forgiveness of the Savior I led him place his trust in.

 

[Svt4Him]

Those who are adamant that a person who takes his life is committing a mortal sin, and will go to hell, are basing their belief on church doctrine rather than on the Bible. Scripture is silent on the subject. There are no verses that say "He who takes his own life shall be ******." According to Scripture, only one sin does not have forgiveness, and that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. That means there is forgiveness for every other sin.

Some quote 1 Corinthians 3:17, which says that God will destroy someone who "defiles" the temple of the Holy Spirit. Yet, there is disagreement about what it means to defile the temple. Does this include suicide? Does it include illicit drug abuse (slow suicide), prescription drug abuse, cigarettes (deliberately breathing in poisons that will eventually kill), tattoos, over-eating (digging a grave with your spoon), or alcohol abuse?

God forbid that we add to the pain of someone who has lost a loved one through the tragedy of suicide, by making a judgment about their eternal destiny. God is the ultimate Judge, and we should therefore leave the issue in His hands. It would be wise to follow the biblical example and not come to any verdict in the case of suicide.

 

[d0c markus]

thats a sad story hands and feet. Im sorry to hear that. I dont subscribe to one sin being worse than the other either, venial mortal or the like. The fact is did they die in grace, for you once saved always saved folks, your not gonna have this. But if you dont agree with OSAS thats an important question.

Did these evil satanists call for him to reject Jesus, and denounce God and did he?, we dont know what went on in those final moments. And we also dont know his mind either, obviously he was screwed up mentally.... This is a grey area, only God knows.

 

[Hands&Feet]

Did these evil satanists call for him to reject Jesus, and denounce God and did he?, we dont know what went on in those final moments. And we also dont know his mind either, obviously he was screwed up mentally.... This is a grey area, only God knows.

His note indicated that he had to trust that God would understand, which he felt that he did. He apologized to everyone, but said he wa too tired to fight any more.

It's in God's hands.

I've bounced back and forth between OSAS and Eternal insecurity from time to time myself. I still don't know for certain. Either way we look at it, we can use it to explain away things we don't understand. I am certainly an adamant proponent of an all-powerful grace, but the free-will thing still leaves a big question mark. I can't fully subscribe to Calvinism. I'm just confident in the knowledge that God has it all worked out.

 

[aanjt]

Jesus knew his death was his destiny, there was know going around it. Calling it suicide, or suicide by cop i dunno bout that. Its a fine line. If suicide is a sin, then jesus sinned which is not possible. There are 2 trains of thought now: 1. suicide is not a sin. 2 suicide is a sin. Im going with suicide is a sin because murder is a sin. I think we could all logically come to that conclusion.

I think what needs to be taken into consideration since our god is a fair and just God, is the mental status of that person. Which thats hard to debate since we can not truley know the mind of the individual.

When I stated, "Suicide by cop" that was in response to the poster that said that suicide is by self-infliction. I was not referring to Christ. Is suicide a sin? Who knows. Should we condemn those who commit suicide based on that alone? No, and we should never sentence someone to condemnation, that is only God/Christ's decision and not ours. People who are contemplating suicide are generally in such mental anguish and pain that it is unbearable.

Yours in Christ,
Jen

 

[aanjt]

Talking about suicide, my 2nd son's former Webelos leader, now in the same troop (my oldest son, 2nd son, and this man's sons) daughter committed suicide on December 21st. She was only 14 years old. Please pray for the family. I do not believe this child is in hell. I believe that the angels are surrounding her.

Yours in Christ,
Jen

 

[FervidPrincess]

I do not believe this child is in hell. I believe that the angels are surrounding her.

I dont believe she is in Hell either. And, I will be praying for her family.