Suffering?

[seaofsand]

I grew up a Christian and have been considering going back to Christianity for over a year now. But there is one thing that always stops me, and that is the subject of suffering.

When I see the amount of suffering that happens on this planet, often to the innocent, I cannot understand why God allows this. He is either not a loving god or he simply does not care about his creation. Women and children are being brutalized in Afghanistan (and other places) right now. Animals suffer every day, everywhere, and are disposed of like garbage. My grandmother, a lifelong devout Christian and a kindhearted lady, suffered terribly for months before she finally died recently. She cried out to Jesus every single day to take her, but of course, he didn't until she finally went into a coma after four months of excruciating illness. I could go on and on.

The Bible even says that God enjoys the aroma of burning flesh, doesn't it? How can we say this god is loving?

This topic causes me a lot of internal turmoil. I want to believe again and I even want to go to church again. But I cannot force myself to believe that God loves us when he leaves so many innocent and helpless people and creatures to suffer. It makes me think that God created us for amusement and nothing else.

 

[Dave L]

I grew up a Christian and have been considering going back to Christianity for over a year now. But there is one thing that always stops me, and that is the subject of suffering.

When I see the amount of suffering that happens on this planet, often to the innocent, I cannot understand why God allows this. He is either not a loving god or he simply does not care about his creation. Women and children are being brutalized in Afghanistan (and other places) right now. Animals suffer every day, everywhere, and are disposed of like garbage. My grandmother, a lifelong devout Christian and a kindhearted lady, suffered terribly for months before she finally died recently. She cried out to Jesus every single day to take her, but of course, he didn't until she finally went into a coma after four months of excruciating illness. I could go on and on.

The Bible even says that God enjoys the aroma of burning flesh, doesn't it? How can we say this god is loving?

This topic causes me a lot of internal turmoil. I want to believe again and I even want to go to church again. But I cannot force myself to believe that God loves us when he leaves so many innocent and helpless people and creatures to suffer. It makes me think that God created us for amusement and nothing else.

God sends suffering and destruction on the wicked. He does not allow anything, He causes it.

“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 3:36 (KJV 1900)

When a Christian suffers it shows their love for God even though they know He could end it at any time. Job is the perfect example.

 

[Jesus is my Superhero]

Suffering is the name of the game in this world since Adam and Eve rebelled and rejected the authority of God.
I'll take my suffering submitting and in obedience to the teachings of my Lord and King, Jesus Christ. Amen.

 

[seaofsand]

That all sounds like exactly what I was talking about. This is not something a loving creator would do. It sounds like something a sadist would do.

God sends suffering and destruction on the wicked. He does not allow anything, He causes it.

“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 3:36 (KJV 1900)

When a Christian suffers it shows their love for God even though they know He could end it at any time. Job is the perfect example.

 

[Jesus is my Superhero]

You and I and millions of others are the sadists. Stop rebelling and submit. Our sins create problems for ourselves and others.

Edit: The story threaded throughout the bible is the story of God redeeming mankind.

 

[seaofsand]

I don't punish people I love in order to force them into submission or prove their love for me. I don't even do that to people I don't like.

You and I and millions of others are the sadists. Stop rebelling and submit. Our sins create problems for ourselves and others.

 

[timf]

There are many types of suffering. Some is consequential. Some is for learning. Some to demonstrate the power of God. Some is the natural result of a fallen world.

We can think of God as a loving parent. This love seeks what is best. "Best" does not always mean comfort and ease. Consider the parents of the 1950s who showered their children with almost every indulgence and guided by people like Dr. Spock that told them to never discipline their children. That generation almost destroyed itself with a lack of discipline and pursuit of hedonism.

The heartache of a parent that sees a rebellious child go off on their own was captured in the story of the Prodigal Son. What brought the son back to the father was the realization that the path he was on at first seemed attractive, but led to destruction.

In a way, this represents God's desire for us. Not that we would have an easy comfortable life, but that our difficulties would finally bring us to see truth.

This present world is like a diseased and rotting corpse. It will never be a utopia. God provided a way out by sending Jesus to die for all sin. If we trust in Jesus, we can receive his Spirit and be placed in what is called "the body of Christ". This is the way we eventually get transported out of this world and into the next (saved).

 

[Jesus is my Superhero]

I don't punish people I love in order to force them into submission or prove their love for me. I don't even do that to people I don't like.

Until you repent and stop posing as a god, you cannot see the Kingdom of God. Pray that repentance be granted to you, so that you may become a child of God.

 

[seaofsand]

I appreciate your answer. However, this still doesn't answer the question of why God allows innocent children and babies to suffer and die, or why animals are allowed to suffer horribly as well. And yes, I know that animals are not on the same level as human beings, but they are God's creation and we were meant (according to the Bible) to take care of them. And we fail at that. God does nothing to intervene.

I believe that sin and attachments to the world are what cause personal suffering to individuals, but I'm talking more about the suffering of innocents. God allows this every day and does not intervene and does not answer prayers on behalf of them.

At this point, I am leaning more toward believing that God simply does not care one way or another what happens to the world or the people in it.

The heartache of a parent that sees a rebellious child go off on their own was captured in the story of the Prodigal Son. What brought the son back to the father was the realization that the path he was on at first seemed attractive, but led to destruction.

In a way, this represents God's desire for us. Not that we would have an easy comfortable life, but that our difficulties would finally bring us to see truth.

This present world is like a diseased and rotting corpse. It will never be a utopia. God provided a way out by sending Jesus to die for all sin. If we trust in Jesus, we can receive his Spirit and be placed in what is called "the body of Christ". This is the way we eventually get transported out of this world and into the next (saved).

 

[TzephanYahu]

Hi @seaofsand

My friend, I understand your heart. It can all seem back to front and trying to understand God through the lens of this world is very difficult. However, have you ever tried the other way - viewing this world through the lens of God?

True, there is much suffering and wickedness in these days. But do you think that you care and your heart aches more for the innocent than His?

This life is a trial. It's the first stage of forever. What we do, the choices we make and how we treat others is being recorded ahead of when the real life begins, when the Messiah returns. This is not the time for God to restore everything to being perfect and fair. He has a plan already in place to do just this. But for now, we have been given free will and free reign to see how we act when He is not present physically.

But what do you think? That the Creator is evil and you have worked this out with your great understanding and your loving heart which exceeds His? Or perhaps have you more to learn about Him, the Word and the world? However old you are, however experienced and knowledgeable you are - you still fall far short of the Creator, and surely you know that. In the same way, how is it that you think you have heart that is better in judgement in that you can say of God that He is a sadist?

My friend, my tone might sound harsh but that isn't my heart. I'm asking this rhetorical questions gently to encourage you to change your thinking. For if you come to God with preconceived ideas of who He is and how He regards His creation lighter than you, then you can't expect to ever meet with Him like that. You have boxed God in and out.

I hope you take this the right way when I say we need to first humble ourselves before finding Yahweh. So things seem dire to you and it seems God doesn't care - okay. Does that sound logical to you though? Who did the Messiah seem like to you? An evil, apathetic cruel man or a wise, loving and gentle man? Consider then that your understanding may be at fault rather than the Creator.

Therefore, seek the truth in His Word and in prayer and you will find it. And you will find peace and joy even in this wicked world - until the Creator's fury can no longer be held back and all things are restored, justice is served and mercy given to His children.

If you have any more questions though, please feel free to pm me any time.

Peace.

 

[Dave L]

That all sounds like exactly what I was talking about. This is not something a loving creator would do. It sounds like something a sadist would do.

Most people form a god they call Jesus from their imagination. More or less a "designer god". But He only reveals Himself to those He chose to save.

 

[Jesus is my Superhero]

I guess, I need to mellow a bit.

 

[Aussie Pete]

I grew up a Christian and have been considering going back to Christianity for over a year now. But there is one thing that always stops me, and that is the subject of suffering.

When I see the amount of suffering that happens on this planet, often to the innocent, I cannot understand why God allows this. He is either not a loving god or he simply does not care about his creation. Women and children are being brutalized in Afghanistan (and other places) right now. Animals suffer every day, everywhere, and are disposed of like garbage. My grandmother, a lifelong devout Christian and a kindhearted lady, suffered terribly for months before she finally died recently. She cried out to Jesus every single day to take her, but of course, he didn't until she finally went into a coma after four months of excruciating illness. I could go on and on.

The Bible even says that God enjoys the aroma of burning flesh, doesn't it? How can we say this god is loving?

This topic causes me a lot of internal turmoil. I want to believe again and I even want to go to church again. But I cannot force myself to believe that God loves us when he leaves so many innocent and helpless people and creatures to suffer. It makes me think that God created us for amusement and nothing else.

Do you think that God was laughing as He watched His Son die on the cross for you? That is love. God gave His own Son to die that you might live.

This stuff about suffering has been raked over for millennia. Fundamentally, God gave man free will. Adam made a really bad choice, allying himself to Satan and against God. The evil that you see is entirely man's doing. If God was to rid the world of evil, and he will eventually, He would have to kill every single human being. God is the one who has stepped in to save humanity from itself. Except very few want to be saved. God respects that choice too. You have fallen for the devil's lie. When I went through this mental battle decades ago, God just said to me, "What about the cross?" Yes. God so loved the world.....

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I grew up a Christian and have been considering going back to Christianity for over a year now. But there is one thing that always stops me, and that is the subject of suffering.

When I see the amount of suffering that happens on this planet, often to the innocent, I cannot understand why God allows this. He is either not a loving god or he simply does not care about his creation. Women and children are being brutalized in Afghanistan (and other places) right now. Animals suffer every day, everywhere, and are disposed of like garbage. My grandmother, a lifelong devout Christian and a kindhearted lady, suffered terribly for months before she finally died recently. She cried out to Jesus every single day to take her, but of course, he didn't until she finally went into a coma after four months of excruciating illness. I could go on and on.

The Bible even says that God enjoys the aroma of burning flesh, doesn't it? How can we say this god is loving?

This topic causes me a lot of internal turmoil. I want to believe again and I even want to go to church again. But I cannot force myself to believe that God loves us when he leaves so many innocent and helpless people and creatures to suffer. It makes me think that God created us for amusement and nothing else.

I understand your concern. You do not love God, Jesus Christ of Nazareth, enough or maybe not at all to put your trust in Him. He promised His Holy Spirit to those who love Him. Without His Holy Spirit, it is impossible to understand our Creator. That being said, evil is caused by men through their evil hearts. The blame solely lies in the corrupted flesh. Once you receive His Holy Spirit you will understand this truth. But for now you are overshadowed by the flesh thus the truth is hidden from you. I will pray for you.
Be blessed.

 

[Dave L]

“There is no fear of God before their eyes.” Romans 3:18 (KJV 1900)

Why would anyone fear the god being preached today?

 

[Jesus is my Superhero]

Some churches preach a depressed Jesus. Not very appealing.

 

[Dave L]

Some churches preach a depressed Jesus. Not very appealing.

A limp wristed big brother is most popular.

 

[seaofsand]

May I ask what denomination you are, if any?

I believe we have karma from past lives. We can pay it back through suffering. So those who suffer are closer to heaven i believe.

 

[TedT]

But I cannot force myself to believe that God loves us when he leaves so many innocent and helpless people and creatures to suffer.

Innocent?
No innocent suffers.
Only those guilty of sin suffer.

IF innocents suffer like sinners, then how does that happen do we suppose? Either:
1. GOD makes a world where the innocent are allowed to (or are predestined to) suffer putting HIM totally in charge of all the innocent suffering in the world's history? I hear that from the atheists all the time.

2. GOD allows Satan access to innocents to cause them suffering like Job because HE can't stop it or because HE won't stop it?

I contend that GOD has no use for evil nor suffering in HIS world but allowed its creation by HIS creation when HE gave us free will to to be able to have a true marriage with HIM based upon true love, and so all suffering is from a true free will decision to go against GOD, ie to be evil.

Either:
GOD causes our suffering.
Satan causes our suffering.
We ourselves cause our own suffering.

What is so evil about the claim we cause our own suffering by a free will choice to be sinful and paying the price which includes suffering? It allows suffering without GOD being a monster. It allows suffering without blaming someone else. It makes us responsible for our own fate...radical eh?

We all have our idols and rebelling against GOD's righteous judgement as too harsh and unloving is the idolatry that the sinful elect are put on earth to learn to repudiate.

These innocents you claim suffer for a specific reason - how does that prove that GOD did not choose a sinner to suffer for that particular reason?

Are you a denier of the doctrine that all are born in sin? Only if people are born on earth without sin and start to spend time with the evil tares by HIS command can we say innocents suffer. Yet death is the wages for sin, not a natural consequence for life and so, since infants die in and out of the womb, they must be sinners, not innocents.

Peace, Ted

 

[Blade]

Hey.. God didn't do this. This was not how GOD wanted it. We sinned.. we handed to Satan what was ours "And the devil said to Him, “I will give You all this realm and its glory [its power, its renown]; because it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish."

At that moment Adam&Eve sinned.. death set in. The wages of sin is death. God had no hand in that. Ever look into the promises of God? Why not read about those.. its to all that believe. God said to Israel...if you do the same things (sins) as those other nations do the earth will spit you out. "lest the land vomit you out also when you defile it, as it vomited out the nations that were before you."

Each one of us.. if we sin there is price and its death. Psa 91 read it.. Isa 53 5 1st Peter 2 24 or by Christ.. what ever you ask the Father in my name He will do it. What ever you desire when you pray believe you receive it you shall have it. I give you all power all authority over the enemy and nothing shall by any means hurt you....on and on and on.

The enemy does all this evil. God gave us His word that He spoke which can not ever come back to Him void "So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it."

I use this all the time...when fear pops up.. NO I don't receive this in JESUS name for GOD has not given me the spirit of fear but of power and love and sound mine. I can do all things through Christ. I am strong in the power of His might. I Put on the whole armor of GOD. I have HIS peace.. I have the joy of the lord.. again on and and on.

Burning flesh.. its not that simple. God did leave heaven became His own creation.. didn't have to. Greater love has no man. For GOD so loved the world. Its ok to get mad at GOD hahahah.. He can take it.. He will not get mad.. wont get upset.. ask Him as you tell Him all this.. to open your eyes...to see just in your own life..what have not seen all He has done. We MUST believe. We have a free choice to do right or wrong.. He loves you like no other. He will not ever force anyone to believe or do or think.. it has to be our choice.