Suffering

ananda · Dec 25, 2015

popsthebuilder said:
Yeah, that's what evil does.

Not embracing suffering is good. Neglecting it all together is to neglect the pain and lesson and opportunities to truly remove it from the equation in the next case.

Yes, we should learn from pains, but suffering is optional.

ananda · Dec 25, 2015

popsthebuilder said:
Compassion, LOVEing kindness, selfless giving, and love for others and God are all love. You seem to divide concepts and things needlessly, showing your lack of selflessness and your abundance of greed on some level. Can you not see that most the things you say are simply a different side of the same coin? Then you intentionally continue to keep things separate, that through your experience, and attempted enlightenment should be seen as singular and harmonious.

How long have you been practicing Buddhism?

Might have sounded kinda rude. I'm generally blunt, and really mean no disrespect whatsoever.

Peace.

Compassion and loving-kindness are not the kind of "love" which Christianity preaches. I've been practing Buddhism for four years.

ananda · Dec 25, 2015

popsthebuilder said:
One cannot have compassion without empathy

I disagree. Compassion is sympathetic, but not necessarily empathetic.

popsthebuilder · Dec 25, 2015

Lulav said:
Isn't that why they say G-d came to earth as a human so that he could experience what we experience?

What? No, I think your confused a little.

The son of GOD, a predestined and prophesied pure lamb without blemish(sin),and selfless sacrifice was put here to to show us the way and testify the word of GOD and pay with his own blood, for the sins(greed) of all mankind that we may by his teachings, example, and sacrifice be freed from the bindings of sin(greed), and addiction of any sort(idol worship).

In doing such a new era can occur

popsthebuilder · Dec 25, 2015

ananda said:
"Pain" does not equal "suffering". Painful situations should be avoided whenever morally and ethically possible.

To ignore pain is to not suffer. To not suffer at some level is to not learn or adapt or change, in doing such one is literally limiting potential

popsthebuilder · Dec 25, 2015

ananda said:
Yes, we should learn from pains, but suffering is optional.

One cannot perceive pain without suffering.

popsthebuilder · Dec 25, 2015

ananda said:
Compassion and loving-kindness are not the kind of "love" which Christianity preaches. I've been practing Buddhism for four years.

Indeed they are though.

popsthebuilder · Dec 25, 2015

You say you have been practicing for for years.

Two questions please. Honest inquiry.

Buddhists do acknowledge a singular creative force to existence, do they not?

Do Buddhists worship or praise or look to attain an end state of void or emptiness?

ananda · Dec 25, 2015

popsthebuilder said:
To ignore pain is to not suffer. To not suffer at some level is to not learn or adapt or change, in doing such one is literally limiting potential

Buddhism does not exactly teach one to "ignore" pain. It does teach one to unattach from the pain, so the higher consciousness/wisdom can analyze the pain from an objective viewpoint and so it could be solved more rationally, instead of being emotionally driven.

In Buddhism, the brain/mind is likened to an animal which needs to be trained - by the higher consciousness (aka spirit). Most people allow their animal brain/mind to pull their consciousness wherever it wants to go, following the dictates of their thoughts and identifying these thoughts as part of themselves. Buddhism teaches that the consciousness must train to take control over the animal brain/mind and the body, so pain can be objectively analyzed from the viewpoint of the consciousness instead of the animal brain.

popsthebuilder said:
One cannot perceive pain without suffering.

I respectfully disagree - see above. I have tested this in my own life, so I speak from experience ... pain can actually be analyzed and dealt with with greater effiacy, proportionate with the amount of suffering minimzed.

ananda · Dec 25, 2015

popsthebuilder said:
Indeed they are though.

Compassion and loving-kindness may be considered a type of "love", but these types of love does not require reciprocation and attachment. Christianity teaches a different type of "love" which does requires reciprocation and attachment.

ananda · Dec 25, 2015

popsthebuilder said:
You say you have been practicing for for years.

Two questions please. Honest inquiry.

Buddhists do acknowledge a singular creative force to existence, do they not?

Do Buddhists worship or praise or look to attain an end state of void or emptiness?

Buddhists acknowledge that we are each the creative force behind existence. Because of our individual cravings and attachments (e.g. to worldly existence), we, by the force of our collective individual wills, create the vast kammic energies which continuously keeps all of creation active and in motion.

Buddhists sometimes worship others, devas (low-level deities), and brahmas (mid-level deities) because they are recognized as beings in a higher state of existence (higher kamma). Through generosity, morality, and wisdom, a lay Buddhist aspires to these higher states of existence on earth and in the various heavens; these states are recognized by the Buddha as legitimate goals for laymen, but they are not the highest goal.

The highest goal is the eternal bliss of nibbana, achievable through progressive training in conquering (controlling) the body, then the brain/mind, and finally consciousness itself; nibbana is not existence as we know it, nor is it non-existence (void/emptiness).

The Buddha, as representative of the highest ideal, is often "worshipped" by Buddhists - not because there is a living spirit to receive the worship within the statue, but because possessing a worshipful attitude is recognized as bringing positive change to the individual's self, for self-transformation.

May I ask, what do spiritual or religious system you practice?

katerinah1947 · Dec 26, 2015

Hi,

One day to God, but silently as if I spoke openly everyone would know, that I was upset that I had blown, actually God had prevented me from achieving what I actually wanted.

Yes, this was before reaching Nirvana or whatever it is called in Buddhism.

"No chance for survival if... They have done it. I am alive. I can't tell them. I don't want to be."

Some things I had said, gave them full permissions to do everything or nothing, to me. I had passed out just minutes later.

When I awoke days later, or a day later, even with telling them no, I can't do this, already they had completed their work. I was devastated.

I did not know why I was alive, but I soldiered on. I am still doing that. A month or so ago, yet again a crisis hit me. I again did not know how I would go on.

Now though, almost each morning, I am upset to be alive still.

Much of my pain, threatens even my sanity. I soldier on though.

According to the Buddhists, yes Nirvana I exist in. According to Christians and proven by them, yes I am in a consummated mystical marriage to God The Father, and work frequently on both sides of the Gate to Heaven and to and with God.

Maybe, excessive pain and anguish all handled somehow, let's one concentrate, or God uses it to make us into what we need to be to be acceptable to Him.

Maybe, spanning both ideas, that of Buddhism and Christianity, is what has happened to me. I understand both of you, but The God I am working with is more than the Buddhists know about fully, and it is just a little more clear than what the Christians know. Generally, Christians know of God Trinitarianly and have heard of God also being personal, yet He is both and in experiencing Him, it is simple, but I imagine one must be given that experience by God, in some way or another, before it becomes simple.

I hope that helps both of you understand suffering a little more.

LOVE,

popsthebuilder · Dec 26, 2015

ananda said:
Buddhists acknowledge that we are each the creative force behind existence. Because of our individual cravings and attachments (e.g. to worldly existence), we, by the force of our collective individual wills, create the vast kammic energies which continuously keeps all of creation active and in motion.

Buddhists sometimes worship others, devas (low-level deities), and brahmas (mid-level deities) because they are recognized as beings in a higher state of existence (higher kamma). Through generosity, morality, and wisdom, a lay Buddhist aspires to these higher states of existence on earth and in the various heavens; these states are recognized by the Buddha as legitimate goals for laymen, but they are not the highest goal.

The highest goal is the eternal bliss of nibbana, achievable through progressive training in conquering (controlling) the body, then the brain/mind, and finally consciousness itself; nibbana is not existence as we know it, nor is it non-existence (void/emptiness).

The Buddha, as representative of the highest ideal, is often "worshipped" by Buddhists - not because there is a living spirit to receive the worship within the statue, but because possessing a worshipful attitude is recognized as bringing positive change to the individual's self, for self-transformation.

May I ask, what do spiritual or religious system you practice?

One seemingly quite similar to yours. Is Brahman or Brahmin the highest power. I may be confused. I'm not speaking of man under GOD, but the creator or creative force that is eternal and ultimately responsible for all existence. My Faith is a peculiar one in comparison to most traditional faiths at this time. I believe whole heartedly that all who are faithful to GOD, Brahmin, Allah, Christ, or just the one creator GOD, will unite in peace on a universal level. This will bring about a level of selfless consciousness that will be global and wholly new compared to any haphazard proclamation of faith seen today. My Faith doesn't exclude any. All must change. All can change. None are perfect, and we can all grow in the direction of the Lord at his will. I can literally go on for hours attempting to describe my beliefs or Faith.

To sum it up sorta; it supports no separation or division among those peaceful, and with Faith on any level. Similar ideals can be found in the Bahia, and Druze faiths, some of Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, and encorperates Judaism Islam and some forms of paganism. There are twelve tribes that were divided and spread across the world by God's will. These tribes or faiths or candles will come back together and finally be under the real direction of the one creator GOD, ushering in a new age of peace unity and prosperity never before witnessed.

I would like to speak with you further. It is difficult for me to not be so vague unless you ask particular questions. If you are interested then please feel free to ask away. I've found some comfort in your stating that Buddhist do not literally worship void. Won't take your word for it as if fact, but still. To be clear on one point; it is my findings that most Christians indeed act for reward either on this plane or another. This is not true direction under God and you have supported the statement of such. However true faithful Christians do not act for reward of any form but because it is the only right thing to do. This is more of a stance on what Faith is to be, and not descriptive of what is falsely is for many.

Peace and respect

popsthebuilder · Dec 26, 2015

ananda said:
Buddhism does not exactly teach one to "ignore" pain. It does teach one to unattach from the pain, so the higher consciousness/wisdom can analyze the pain from an objective viewpoint and so it could be solved more rationally, instead of being emotionally driven.

In Buddhism, the brain/mind is likened to an animal which needs to be trained - by the higher consciousness (aka spirit). Most people allow their animal brain/mind to pull their consciousness wherever it wants to go, following the dictates of their thoughts and identifying these thoughts as part of themselves. Buddhism teaches that the consciousness must train to take control over the animal brain/mind and the body, so pain can be objectively analyzed from the viewpoint of the consciousness instead of the animal brain.

I respectfully disagree - see above. I have tested this in my own life, so I speak from experience ... pain can actually be analyzed and dealt with with greater effiacy, proportionate with the amount of suffering minimzed.

If you read my previous posts you will see that I too have experience in what I speak of. We seem to be splitting hairs for no reason. To stop this needless division I will simply state that we are indeed on the same page as far as pain, and or suffering are concerned. Similar to ignoring pain, dwelling on it can also limit ones ability to benefit from it.

Peace

popsthebuilder · Dec 26, 2015

ananda said:
Compassion and loving-kindness may be considered a type of "love", but these types of love does not require reciprocation and attachment. Christianity teaches a different type of "love" which does requires reciprocation and attachment.

Attachment to what?

katerinah1947 · Dec 26, 2015

popsthebuilder said:
If you read my previous posts you will see that I too have experience in what I speak of. We seem to be splitting hairs for no reason. To stop this needless division I will simply state that we are indeed on the same page as far as pain, and or suffering are concerned. Similar to ignoring pain, dwelling on it can also limit ones ability to benefit from it.

Peace

popsthebuilder said:
Attachment to what?

Hi,

I hope you are answered from her, if I remember correctly.

My best remembrance of the way God actually loves, slowly I am possibly, forgetting that. If I actually forget, I will stop signing off with the word LOVE, all capitalized.

Christian love, does have something asked of it. It asks that you, do the will, which is the Chritan definition of love that The Bible actually talks of when referring to God's form of love, do the will of God.

And it asks you to do the will of your neighbor as you do the will of your own self, however.

However, there is more.

However, to do the will of God, as you do the will of your neighbor, as you do the will of yourself and as you do the will of others as Jesus did the will of His Apostles and Disciples, one must eventually understand that infrequently do we do the will or wills of anyone, other than ourselves.

The day I was treated to The Essence of God, a day later Jesus Christ as He actually is and therefore The Core of His Personality, and a day later an exchange of a sign of peace withe the Virgin Mary as she looked on earth when she was 49 years old, I did not change instantly, in being able to love.

The change took about 18 months. I reacted. I did not cause this.

First and slowly, about nine months later, after getting used to all the effects of having seen The Essence of God, Jesus coming inside of me and revealing His Core Personslity to me, thus I Know why He LOVES, but also meeting with The Virgin Mary in a full and normal human body form plus her shaking my hand in the exchange of peace offering at Mass in the church at the place I was called to by her, while simultaneously being told something about the true nature of sin by something that was happening because of her actually coming to me in that form through and amidst all of us normal types of sinners, nine months later I made a decision, I wanted to continue liking everyone in an Agape way.

Never before have I been like that.

In about 5 months Agape like, went to, Agape love. Three days later, I told my workmates, that the like I had for everyone was no longer like, it is now love, but an Agape form, as it was not the kind which means that I am in love with a man or want to date a woman for the same reasons. They handled it well.

It grew and it was finally the way God actually loves, and I did not have to tell anyone that.

The point here, is that was given. I did not, nor could not ever do that before.

My historical record of trying to love, was 58 years almost. Never ever did I even know what love was, before that transition done to me, and.

And, There is more, but not for now.

God loves in a way, that maybe always has to be given for us to know what it is.

Yet, we can achieve high states of getting closer and closer to that gift giving.

LOVE,

popsthebuilder · Dec 26, 2015

katerinah1947 said:
Hi,

I hope you are answered from her, if I remember correctly.

My best remembrance of the way God actually loves, slowly I am possibly, forgetting that. If I actually forget, I will stop signing off with the word LOVE, all capitalized.

Christian love, does have something asked of it. It asks that you, do the will, which is the Chritan definition of love that The Bible actually talks of when referring to God's form of love, do the will of God.

And it asks you to do the will of your neighbor as you do the will of your own self, however.

However, there is more.

However, to do the will of God, as you do the will of your neighbor, as you do the will of yourself and as you do the will of others as Jesus did the will of His Apostles and Disciples, one must eventually understand that infrequently do we do the will or wills of anyone, other than ourselves.

The day I was treated to The Essence of God, a day later Jesus Christ as He actually is and therefore The Core of His Personality, and a day later an exchange of a sign of peace withe the Virgin Mary as she looked on earth when she was 49 years old, I did not change instantly, in being able to love.

The change took about 18 months. I reacted. I did not cause this.

First and slowly, about nine months later, after getting used to all the effects of having seen The Essence of God, Jesus coming inside of me and revealing His Core Personslity to me, thus I Know why He LOVES, but also meeting with The Virgin Mary in a full and normal human body form plus her shaking my hand in the exchange of peace offering at Mass in the church at the place I was called to by her, while simultaneously being told something about the true nature of sin by something that was happening because of her actually coming to me in that form through and amidst all of us normal types of sinners, nine months later I made a decision, I wanted to continue liking everyone in an Agape way.

Never before have I been like that.

In about 5 months Agape like went to Agape love. Three days later, I told my workmates, that the like I had for everyone was no longer like it is now love, but an Agape form, as it was not the kind which means that I am in love with a man or want to date a woman for the same reasons. They handled it well.

It grew and it was finally the way Gid actually loves, and I did not have to tell anyone that.

The point here, is that was given. I did not, nor could not ever do that before.
My historical record of trying to love, was 58 years almost. Never ever did I even know what love, was before that transition done to me, and.

And, There is more, but not for now.

God loves in a way, that maybe always has to be given for us to know what it is.

Yet, we can achieve high states if getting closer and closer to that gift giving.

LOVE,

Yes agape is love for all things but not for return in any way. You do not have your love to all for love back from them. The love of God is without condition as ours towards his creation is to be.

Peace

katerinah1947 · Dec 26, 2015

popsthebuilder said:
Yes agape is love for all things but not for return in any way. You do not have your love to all for love back from them. The love of God is without condition as ours towards his creation is to be.

Peace

Hi,

Then you are much. How is it that you know that?

Yes, I can guess. Please tell me though. Please do.

LOVE,

popsthebuilder · Dec 26, 2015

katerinah1947 said:
Hi,

Then you are much. How is it that you know that?

Yes, I can guess. Please tell me though. Please do.

LOVE,

I would be delighted, of course. I have work to attend to at the moment though. Feel free to pm me kind of as a reminder. Very pleased to meet you by the way.

Peace

katerinah1947 · Dec 26, 2015

popsthebuilder said:
I would be delighted, of course. I have work to attend to at the moment though. Feel free to pm me kind of as a reminder. Very pleased to meet you by the way.

Peace

Hi,

So did I, but I have a moment now. Although I am talking about LOVE, it is hard for me like remembering my own phone number when asked.,

And., like that exchange here too things become more clear in time.

Even though I was asked to give the gift of being able to LOVE, to another, after I realized it fully and finally was aware that, that thing, being able to love like God actually loves, was actually in me, remnants remain and to the best of my abilities, I still love in that way.

Your words, but of course in the full context of suffering enough, those words reminded me of the fact that God's form of love, like the love called Agape, does not require a return.

I forgot that, much like my teacher of Semi's, he too did not know how to teach, he just knew how to do.

I learned much from him, on my passion of at least once in my life being able to drive one, long haul.

Slowly, as he stumbled, he thought about what he was actually doing, and then gave that to me.

I drove, 1320 miles, on a permit, the first time that I was allowed to drive. It was in the first actual trip of only two trips ever, where I was helping out in a relative emergency situation, that he stumbled through teaching me how to do things such as shift then in all gears above 1st, without ever using the clutch.

It turns out, that even with love, that I hope is actually LOVE, that doing allows me to make mistakes when talking about it.

Such, was the case with my description of Agape-Plus love, it is still an Agape form of love and only the person before God or me, is what counts, even now, with no return expected other than what is good for that person, and that is not a return, as humans think of. (Yes I am human also.)

It is the joy of pain, the result of pain set aside while still always existing, that takes self away from me, so with you I can just be, there for you, in all ways, that I am released from me. (Yet me, never really goes away. I just don't know that me is there, when you are with or before me.)

I think. This stuff is complicated.

LOVE,

Suffering

Early Buddhist

Early Buddhist

Early Buddhist

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Early Buddhist

Early Buddhist

Early Buddhist

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency