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ananda

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Yes, I understand that "love" is your explanation, but it is only based on what is considered the highest ideal from your religious faith.

I respect the Mahayanists' right to practice their faith as they see fit, but I do not personally consider Mahayana to be "Buddhism".

Finally, "compassion" means to sympathize with others' misfortunes, and to wish to alleviate their suffering - suffering with them is optional.
 
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katerinah1947

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Hi,

In a personal account to a patient, a Psychiatrist told us what he told a patient one day in a crisis.

The whole story with that patient, did work.

Here is the part of that, on suffering, which fits here, to say maybe that suffering is important to the internal growth of a person, rather than avoiding it, or some other mechanism to handle it.

"I finally had time to ask the man next to me what his story was."

"What happened to you, to get you here in this concentration camp?"

"The man says to me:"I am Polish. The Germans came to my house one day. They machine gunned my wife and my children in front of me. Because I could speak German they did not kill me. I had a choice to make then. I chose love. I have been here for more than a year."

" The man looked as though he was here only a few months. If that is what choosing love does, it is amazing. I kept looking at him though. I had seen his face before. Finally I realized where I had seen that face before. It is the face of Jesus."

It is the face of Jesus that he saw when he died in the West Texas boot camp for soldiers preparing to go to the Second World War. He died there. Met Jesus. They conversed. Jesus then told him that he needed him to back into his body. He did, eventually surprising everybody, when the covered corpse on a gurney, made coughing and struggling noises.

That once dead man, eventually became a Psychiatrist, but by that time, infrequently shared his story, and never ever before with a patient.

It seems his pain and the pain of others molds us all into more Christ like people.

To be able to feel, to suffer, to cry, to live and wonder how in the midst of great pain, great tragedy, and tragedies, that we are not allowed death over life, seems to be needed and necessary for us as humans to become better humans.

LOVE,
 
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Neochristian

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"To be Christian is to believe in Christ and to suffer for the sake of this faith….." Søren Kierkegaard


I mean, yeah. But only because of the state of the world. That is the prophets reward, that is what happens to the vindyard people. But it is only because of the current unwholesome state of the world. It is not essential to the Christian practice.
 
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Received

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Again, I don't think this is true. The Buddhist would emphasize ways to minimize suffering as a phenomenological reality (by mindfulness and acceptance, which minimizes resistance and desire, leading to "just" pain) just as much as seeking change to uproot the suffering. Actually, dealing with suffering phenomenologically is arguably better than dealing with it through overt change, because stimuli for pain and suffering will always be with us, and the more we push them away by changing the stimuli the less we're able to train ourselves in how to deal with unavoidable stimuli. If we start with changing our perspective and how we relate to suffering, then we're better able to change suffering in terms of moving it away from us; otherwise we'll be so busy moving it away that we never get around to changing our perspective and thereby minimizing suffering through radical acceptance and mindfulness.
 
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SkyWriting

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We suffer because we are not in the presence of God. Our humanity is certainly
the vessel we sit in. And get fat like Buddha. But our Spiritually is the potential
joy of being back with The Father, though we don't deserve it.
 
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popsthebuilder

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How would you say that suffering helps a man?
Suffering is lessons to be learned from. Things learned from experiences had, either good or bad are to be reflected upon and acts on accordingly in new scenarios. Unfortunately, due to self centeredness or greed , many perceive suffering as wholly negative and out of their hands. If we don't learn from pain then what would we learn from. I personally have always only really learned anything through personal experience. Two side notes;

All pain is from the hand of man in some way.

Most everything that happens to us is a response to what we have done.

 
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popsthebuilder

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The only sacrifice is sin or sense of self in terms of greed. Suffering is only temporary. If one could follow wholly without greed or the wants of the flesh then there would be no suffering for that person. Not by their own hand anyway.

Suffering on a global, all life inclusive level will stop if all ever realize the true direction we are to follow in reciprocation and thanks and respect and responsibility under GOD.
 
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popsthebuilder

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Greed, want
 
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popsthebuilder

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When I was young I realized that pain, in a physical sense, was simply an electronic signal. As such I practiced and achieved nullifying the pain.

Now I realize that all pain is a system to guide us, and ignorance or avoidance of pain is detrimental to our existence. What I'm saying is that if you ignore pain the negative effects that trigger the pain will continue, grow, and cause damage over time.

Being able to withstand pain is a good trait in my opinion. Actively ignoring it on all levels in all cases is unwise.
 
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popsthebuilder

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Yes, dukkha is suffering (but not necessarily pain). Dukkha is more primal than happiness, because people seek escape from dukkha; we do not seek escape from happiness. Enlightenment is the path to Nibbana.
Avoidance of pain is equivalent to happiness. What you say doesn't make sense to me, respectfully.
 
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popsthebuilder

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Buddhists seem to actually embrace absence, void, and the lack there of. They also look to avoid any type of significance but their own enlightenment, yet refuse to use what knowledge they might attain. Completely pacifistic. One does have to remove greed and sense of attachment to begin to perceive reality or true direction, but to embrace emptiness and lack of action regardless of potential is just wrong to me and counter productive on a universal level.

I actually ponder if the Buddhists will help the cause of good when the time comes? I hope I'm very wrong about true Buddhists.

I really need to do more research on it, and really hope I'm wrong.

Peace
 
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popsthebuilder

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What makes "[personal] suffering the proper human response to [external] evil"? Just because someone else performed evil means I must experience suffering, or something is wrong with me?
Yeah, that's what evil does.

Not embracing suffering is good. Neglecting it all together is to neglect the pain and lesson and opportunities to truly remove it from the equation in the next case.
 
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popsthebuilder

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Compassion, LOVEing kindness, selfless giving, and love for others and God are all love. You seem to divide concepts and things needlessly, showing your lack of selflessness and your abundance of greed on some level. Can you not see that most the things you say are simply a different side of the same coin? Then you intentionally continue to keep things separate, that through your experience, and attempted enlightenment should be seen as singular and harmonious.

How long have you been practicing Buddhism?

Might have sounded kinda rude. I'm generally blunt, and really mean no disrespect whatsoever.

Peace.
 
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popsthebuilder

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Actually John the Baptist, and Christ both spoke of and Actively practised separation from the material and all things of the flesh. It is a way to meditate on reality without skewing judgment based on greed.
 
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popsthebuilder

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One cannot have compassion without empathy
 
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ananda

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"Suffering" does not equal "personal experience". Are you saying that people can't learn without having to suffer?

Animals and undeveloped children might need some physical prodding to influence them to learn lessons, but mature adults should not need punishment or suffering in order to learn.

I'm not a child that I should require suffering to learn.
 
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Lulav

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Cause and effect? Sounds like what G-d warned about in the OT. There's a lot of 'ifs' and 'thens' in there.
 
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ananda

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"Pain" does not equal "suffering". Painful situations should be avoided whenever morally and ethically possible.
 
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ananda

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I don't recall stating that Buddhists practice a "lack of action". We practice action whenever possible, and non-action whenever appropriate.
 
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