Substitutionary sacrifice

[Not David]

I know Christ was offered as a sacrifice for our sins. I am wondering how is Christ as "Lamb of God" viewed in Orthodoxy different from Catholic Satisfaction Theory and the Penal Substitution?

 

[Antoni]

I know Christ was offered as a sacrifice for our sins. I am wondering how is Christ as "Lamb of God" viewed in Orthodoxy different from Catholic Satisfaction Theory and the Penal Substitution?

Briefly, the soteriological explanations of Christ’s work on the cross are many and varied. As with many mysteries, there are many layers of theological depth and understandings. Penal substitution is one understanding which, while found in rare instance in the early Church Fathers, became the dominant understanding of Christ’s work in the West following such people as Anselm. Whereas the (older) Greek Fathers of the East made the foundation of soteriology central upon Christ as the Great Physician and Healer of humankind, the West in the later centuries began to approach the topic more from a legalistic angle, namely that Christ was killed to placate the wrath of God and settle the wages (to the devil, I guess?).

Christ is the Lamb of God Who is offered as an expiation of our sins. He innocently and voluntarily takes upon Himself our sins so that through His death, we may be healed and we may find life.

The Old Testament practices of animal sacrifice was established to prepare for this saving work which Christ would later do, namely, to be sacrificed in order to save mankind. The blood of the lamb on the doorstop during Passover was another symbol conducted by God to prepare the world for future saving work of Christ, the Lamb of God, in our victory over death.

This is a very rough, brief and rudimentary summary I am giving. Much more in-depth studies can be found on the internet.

 

[ArmyMatt]

essentially, Christ wasn't sacrificed because God's righteousness and honor demanded it. there are no compulsions in God.

 

[Not David]

essentially, Christ wasn't sacrificed because God's righteousness and honor demanded it. there are no compulsions in God.

Father, could you give an example of something that could relate to the sacrifice of Christ in the cross?

When I think of "sacrifice", I think of humans pleasing a deity.

 

[Antoni]

Hi David. It is critically important to understand the distinction between expiation and propitiation.

Please read these for a fuller understanding and answer to your questions.

Orthodox Apologetics: Propitiation or Expiation in Saint Paul

Orthodox Apologetics: Expiation vs Propitiation

Propitiation and Expiation - The Whole Counsel Blog

 

[ArmyMatt]

Father, could you give an example of something that could relate to the sacrifice of Christ in the cross?

When I think of "sacrifice", I think of humans pleasing a deity.

He sacrificed Himself to the Father, but it was to destroy sin and death, not because the Father required an appeasement.

 

[Not David]

He sacrificed Himself to the Father, but it was to destroy sin and death, not because the Father required an appeasement.

Only to The Father or to the other members of the Trinity too?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Only to The Father or to the other members of the Trinity too?

the offering was to the Father, by the Son, in the Holy Spirit.

 

[nutroll]

When the Passover was instituted, was it to appease God, or to show faith in His ability to save them and deliver the Hebrews? Or what about the sacrifices of Abel or Noah or Abraham? Certainly one can offer sacrifice to atone for something, but sacrifice can also be an offering of love or an expression of covenant.

 

[Not David]

Why is the Father the one who receives the offering?

 

[All4Christ]

David, I recommend getting this book. It is available for $10 on the Kindle and is an excellent explanation



https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019OWB6W0/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_t1_B91zDbPDVS191

 

[Not David]

David, I recommend getting this book. It is available for $10 on the Kindle and is an excellent explanation


View attachment 261961
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019OWB6W0/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_t1_B91zDbPDVS191

I will check it, thanks Laura!

 

[All4Christ]

I will check it, thanks Laura!

I think it will help! Coming from my background (Evangelical / Pentecostal), it was a huge help. I’ll also find Fr Thomas Hopko’s podcast on the topic, which is also very good at explaining it all - both atonement and redemption.

 

[All4Christ]

The Wrath of God - Speaking the Truth in Love | Ancient Faith Ministries

Redemption in Christ - Speaking the Truth in Love | Ancient Faith Ministries

Understanding the Cross of Christ - Fr. Thomas Hopko Lectures | Ancient Faith Ministries

 

[JohnTh]

Why is the Father the one who receives the offering?

There is an entire theology - however He isn't 'father'. We cannot say who He is. However the word "father" from our language is the word which describes Him best.

 

[ArmyMatt]

There is an entire theology - however He isn't 'father'. We cannot say who He is. However the word "father" from our language is the word which describes Him best.

no He is Father, truly Father. Christ calls Him Father. we can say Who He is because Christ has said that's Who He is. He has true Fatherhood from all eternity, which is wholly unlike any earthly father.

 

[AMM]

no He is Father, truly Father. Christ calls Him Father. we can say Who He is because Christ has said that's Who He is. He has true Fatherhood from all eternity, which is wholly unlike any earthly father.

yeah, and even that link supports what you're saying, at least how I understand it

 

[JohnTh]

no He is Father, truly Father. Christ calls Him Father. we can say Who He is because Christ has said that's Who He is. He has true Fatherhood from all eternity, which is wholly unlike any earthly father.

(Emphasis mine) Exactly this is what I said. If I call "father" my parent here on earth then God isn't "father" because he is "wholly unlike any earthly father" to quote you. However, to quote myself again, the word "father" if the best word which we can apply to Him.

Or to quote St. Gregory Palamas (and others): "God even doesn't exist if the other beings exist".

St. Dionysios the Aeropagite has an entire book on this topic (on the apofatic theology about God's names).

 

[Lukaris]

I think surely the prophecy in Isaiah 53 tells us of what the Lord suffered on the Cross for our sins. This, I believe, is within the Incarnation framework of Orthodoxy and our profession of faith in the Creed.

We, I think, must see the totality of the Incarnation, life preaching of the Gospel, death on the Cross, resurrection, & Ascension of the Lord & not limit this focus. It seems the Lord tells us this in offering the Eucharist ( John 6:44-51).

I put the “I thinks” etc. because I may need to be subject to corrections.

 

[Light of the East]

He sacrificed Himself to the Father, but it was to destroy sin and death, not because the Father required an appeasement.

Someone gave an illustration which, while kind of theologically offbeat, I think really gets to the heart of it. From Men in Black"

Tommy Lee Jones and Will Smith wind up fighting a giant cockroach from the Bug Race who has come to earth to find the Galaxy, an immense source of power. Seeing that they are losing, Tommy Lee Jones taunts the roach and dares it, getting the immense bug to swallow him whole. From inside the bug, you hear a weapon powering up and then POWIEEE!!! the bug is blasted into pieces from Jones killing it from inside with the weapon that the bug had swallowed moments earlier.

This is what Christ did. He allowed death to swallow Him and by doing so, He destroyed it from within. He embraced it to Himself and by doing so, His life destroyed it. There are beautiful Paschal hymns which we sing that speak of this.

Payment does not even enter into this understanding. It is Christ healing human nature by removing death from the equation.