submit and love

[eh7]

Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord (Ephesians 5:22)
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her (Ephesians 5:25)

It is not difficult to understand the word submit. But for love... what should husbands do then considered loving their wives?

 

[bliz]

You missed a crucial verse... Ephesians 5:21 "Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ."

That is the essence of wives submitting to husbands and husbands loving wives - mutual submission.

 

[simpletrust]

You missed a crucial verse... Ephesians 5:21 "Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ."

That is the essence of wives submitting to husbands and husbands loving wives - mutual submission.

I love that verse. *sighs dreamily*

 

[LiberatedChick]

Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord (Ephesians 5:22)
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her (Ephesians 5:25)

It is not difficult to understand the word submit. But for love... what should husbands do then considered loving their wives?

I used to think that what I had in my own marriage was one-way submission...i.e. I submitted to my husband, he didn't submit he just loved. That's what I thought it was and it probably was that way for a while but it kick started mutual submission and I realised that husbands and wives are basically told the same things but in different ways.

22Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.​

25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. 28So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. 30For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. 31“For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and thetwo shall become one flesh.”32This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

OK, so verses 22-24 clearly cover wives submitting, but on looking at verses 25-33 it's clear husbands have a part to play too. A part which I'd say is also submitting, even though such a word isn't used (well it is in verse 21 when everyones told to submit to one another).

See once submission had become something that I regulary did, I found my husband was submitting to me in return. If a decision needed to be made we'd discuss things and share our opinions, in the case of disagreement I'd be quite happy to submit to him but I found that he was quite happy to submit to me also. It was a willingness to give himself up for me, to be selfless and love me as he loves himself. All what the above verses directed at husbands are on about but it came through in the form of submission, a willingness to submit to and serve me as I submit to and serve him.

So it started as one-way and I used to argue "wives submit", "marriage is like a team with a leader", "husbands lead", "it's not blind obedience", etc, etc, etc. But after a while of looking at my own posts describing submission in my marriage...I started seeing that it wasn't so clear cut anymore and I couldn't see how what my husband does isn't submission as well. And I realised, he's doing exactly what the bible says a husband should do...but that's submission too.

 

[awesome liver]

Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord (Ephesians 5:22)
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her (Ephesians 5:25)

It is not difficult to understand the word submit. But for love... what should husbands do then considered loving their wives?

the bible is an antiquated book to look for how to manage relationships between people. case in point, the above verse.

 

[Iceman_Aragorn]

the bible is an antiquated book to look for how to manage relationships between people. case in point, the above verse.

I entirely disagree with that. The Bible authoritatively defines the standard by which would should have relationships. The above verse can seem misleading, given then translation and when taken out of context, but we should most definately listen to the Word of God. The context has already been given by the above posters, so reading it, it seems perfectly, reasonable, and in no way antiquated.

If I am misinterpreting your post, I do apoligize, but to me, antiquated means 'no longer relevant to life today'...and thats what i disagree with.

 

[inchristalone221]

OK, so verses 22-24 clearly cover wives submitting, but on looking at verses 25-33 it's clear husbands have a part to play too. A part which I'd say is also submitting, even though such a word isn't used (well it is in verse 21 when everyones told to submit to one another).

See once submission had become something that I regulary did, I found my husband was submitting to me in return. If a decision needed to be made we'd discuss things and share our opinions, in the case of disagreement I'd be quite happy to submit to him but I found that he was quite happy to submit to me also. It was a willingness to give himself up for me, to be selfless and love me as he loves himself. All what the above verses directed at husbands are on about but it came through in the form of submission, a willingness to submit to and serve me as I submit to and serve him.

the bible is an antiquated book to look for how to manage relationships between people

If you're saying what I think you're saying, I must question your intelligence at least a little. That's a lot like saying the instruction manual for a 10 year old appliance is "antiquated" and therefore should not be used. If you want to know anything about a thing, start with the words of its designer.

 

[eh7]

So it started as one-way and I used to argue "wives submit", "marriage is like a team with a leader", "husbands lead", "it's not blind obedience", etc, etc, etc. But after a while of looking at my own posts describing submission in my marriage...I started seeing that it wasn't so clear cut anymore and I couldn't see how what my husband does isn't submission as well. And I realised, he's doing exactly what the bible says a husband should do...but that's submission too.

If the husbands do not know how to lead, will the marriage be happy and lasting? What should the husbands do if they have "inborn" poor leadership skills?

 

[inchristalone221]

If the husbands do not know how to lead, will the marriage be happy and lasting? What should the husbands do if they have "inborn" poor leadership skills?

Grow.

 

[KristianJ]

I entirely disagree with that. The Bible authoritatively defines the standard by which would should have relationships. The above verse can seem misleading, given then translation and when taken out of context, but we should most definately listen to the Word of God. The context has already been given by the above posters, so reading it, it seems perfectly, reasonable, and in no way antiquated.

If I am misinterpreting your post, I do apoligize, but to me, antiquated means 'no longer relevant to life today'...and thats what i disagree with.

Yes, yes, yes!! It's the most important aspect of correct Biblical interpretation - context. If you leave Eph 5:21 out of it, you're gonna be lost. When one sees that the verse unlocks the true meaning of the passage, then they will truly enjoy and anticipate the opportunities of mutual submission

How can men do it? Well, this seeks love in its most pure and unadulterated form (well, as close as us sinful humans can get anyway). It demands a love that is strong enough to be humble, to take on the nature and example of Jesus. Passages like Philippians 2 are pretty good parallels if you want to really grasp hold of the example of love that Jesus demonstrated

 

[Leanna]

Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord (Ephesians 5:22)
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her (Ephesians 5:25)

It is not difficult to understand the word submit. But for love... what should husbands do then considered loving their wives?

Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her.

How did Christ love the church?

Let's see.... she kept wandering off and doing her own thing, not loving him back consistantly, basically "cheated" on Him, and then when she got really irritated she beat Him up and crucified Him.

Meanwhile, Christ loved and loved so much that He was willing to die in Her place so that she might have a better future. He never gave up. Even as she treated him badly.

So if husbands are to love wives as Christ loved the church..... he needs to give himself up, every bit. Tough job!

 

[inchristalone221]

Amen sister. This sure does put a sock in all the talk of Christianity being chauvinist doesn't it?

 

[eh7]

Grow.

Maybe put it in other way: Have leadership skill but bad leadership skill.

 

[inchristalone221]

Maybe put it in other way: Have leadership skill but bad leadership skill.

I'd still say the answer is to grow. I'd think that part of the sanctification of a Christian husband should be growing into a better spiritual leader for his household.

 

[LiberatedChick]

If the husbands do not know how to lead, will the marriage be happy and lasting? What should the husbands do if they have "inborn" poor leadership skills?

Erm, but I didn't say that husbands should lead I said that's what I *used* to think and what *used* to happen in my own marriage until it grew into mutual submission.

 

[simpletrust]

Amen sister. This sure does put a sock in all the talk of Christianity being chauvinist doesn't it?

Wow, that's a great point!

 

[inchristalone221]

Wow, that's a great point!

I always bring that up with feminists, and they're just utterly shocked to find that all their problems with the Bible have been based on LIES!

 

[awesome liver]

If you're saying what I think you're saying, I must question your intelligence at least a little. That's a lot like saying the instruction manual for a 10 year old appliance is "antiquated" and therefore should not be used. If you want to know anything about a thing, start with the words of its designer.

that is a horrific analogy. a ten year old stereo manual is relevant to the stereo that came out ten years ago. to use it today or today's model would be stupid.

 

[inchristalone221]

that is a horrific analogy. a ten year old stereo manual is relevant to the stereo that came out ten years ago. to use it today or today's model would be stupid.

You're implying that essential human nature and the fundamentals of human interaction have somehow changed on a supra-cultural level? Human beings are the same today that they were when the Bible was written, and God's plan for marriage and other relationships between men and women have not changed until He says they have changed. The analogy may not be perfect, but it isn't horrific. To continue my analogy, there is no new .

 

[bliz]

Erm, but I didn't say that husbands should lead I said that's what I *used* to think and what *used* to happen in my own marriage until it grew into mutual submission.

I really don't know where the "husband as leader" model comes from. First, I have never seen a need for a partnership of two people to declare one of them the leader. Who is the head of our household? God.