Subjectivity

[PujolsNonRoidHomerHitter]

Subjectivity = "judgment based on individual personal impressions and feelings and opinions rather than external facts."

Should religious experiences be filtered through an objective standard in order to evaluate claims made by people or is that judging?


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[TeddyKGB]

Is there such an objective standard that does not ultimately rely on intersubjectivity for its power?

 

[PujolsNonRoidHomerHitter]

Is there such an objective standard that does not ultimately rely on intersubjectivity for its power?

That's a great question. I've been a Christian for a long time and have always used the Scriptures as my one objective standard. But I'm so tainted with me that I've, no doubt, filtered everything I've read through my own subjective mind and opinions. Thus the reason for so many different religions and approaches. I do, however, believe that Scripture is an objective standard.

Specifically, when it comes to knowing God's will, hearing God's leading, making decisions -- seems like so many times we lean on things thought to be objective, but are really subjective. Things like impressions, the still small voice, circumstances, peace, etc;

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[PujolsNonRoidHomerHitter]

By the way, Teddy -- I like your avatar. If I'm correct that's KGB from the movie Rounders? Great show. You a poker player?

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[DailyBlessings]

I think objectivity is mostly a 20th century myth. One can attain a consensus, but never an objective understanding of a thing. We are impaired by the physical facts of our biology from having a genuinely objective outlook.

 

[PujolsNonRoidHomerHitter]

I think objectivity is mostly a 20th century myth. One can attain a consensus, but never an objective understanding of a thing. We are impaired by the physical facts of our biology from having a genuinely objective outlook.

I can see that to a degree. However, perhaps what keeps us from losing any kind of standard is God's own sovereign objectivity. In order to find objective standards you must first assert that He exists -- Heb. 11:6 -- "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him."

But is our faith in God not subjective in itself? Perhaps. But the resultant salvation, justification, transformation that follows is not subjective, it is objective because it doesn't come from me. It comes from the one who IS.

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[TeddyKGB]

That's a great question. I've been a Christian for a long time and have always used the Scriptures as my one objective standard. But I'm so tainted with me that I've, no doubt, filtered everything I've read through my own subjective mind and opinions. Thus the reason for so many different religions and approaches. I do, however, believe that Scripture is an objective standard.

Maybe I'm laboring under misunderstood terms, but it does not seem correct to refer to the Bible as an "objective standard" when you merely declare it as the standard you employ. If I agree with you then it becomes an intersubjective standard, but it would only be objective if it somehow exists as a standard without any input from us.

 

[PujolsNonRoidHomerHitter]

Maybe I'm laboring under misunderstood terms, but it does not seem correct to refer to the Bible as an "objective standard" when you merely declare it as the standard you employ. If I agree with you then it becomes an intersubjective standard, but it would only be objective if it somehow exists as a standard without any input from us.

I firmly believe that the Bible stands as the objective Word of God -- whether I believe it or not -- it is truth. The same is true of God Himself. My beliefs about God may be subjective but His work in my life is based on His objectivity, not my opinons, no matter how skewed they may be.

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[DailyBlessings]

I can see that to a degree. However, perhaps what keeps us from losing any kind of standard is God's own sovereign objectivity. In order to find objective standards you must first assert that He exists -- Heb. 11:6 -- "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him."

But is our faith in God not subjective in itself? Perhaps. But the resultant salvation, justification, transformation that follows is not subjective, it is objective because it doesn't come from me. It comes from the one who IS.

Go Cards!

I'm sure God is capable of seeing the universe objectively, but that's not the same thing as we ourselves doing so, however inspired.

 

[TeddyKGB]

I firmly believe that the Bible stands as the objective Word of God -- whether I believe it or not -- it is truth. The same is true of God Himself. My beliefs about God may be subjective but His work in my life is based on His objectivity, not my opinons, no matter how skewed they may be.

I'm afraid I don't see the objective part. To be more precise, the "Word of God" might exist objectively - I'm still unsure how to apply true objectivity - but the fact that it's something that God says (or would say) makes it about a subject.

And really, the way you're throwing these terms about is just confusing as heck. Your first sentence is gibberish - you believe the Bible is the Word of God whether you believe it or not?

 

[quatona]

Subjectivity = "judgment based on individual personal impressions and feelings and opinions rather than external facts."

Should religious experiences be filtered through an objective standard in order to evaluate claims made by people or is that judging?


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Whom are you planning to put in the position of determining those "objective standards"?

 

[PujolsNonRoidHomerHitter]

I'm afraid I don't see the objective part. To be more precise, the "Word of God" might exist objectively - I'm still unsure how to apply true objectivity - but the fact that it's something that God says (or would say) makes it about a subject.

And really, the way you're throwing these terms about is just confusing as heck. Your first sentence is gibberish - you believe the Bible is the Word of God whether you believe it or not?

Sorry for the confusion. Let me see if I can clarify.

One: Truth is objective. It can stand alone, regardless of whether or not someone believes it to be true or not. The Bible is such a standard of objective truth.

Two: The application of Biblical truth in our lives is a bit more tricky. Simply because it has to be filtered through our subjective minds, circumstances, desires, etc; However, the standard exists and even if we get it wrong from time to time it doesn't negate the fact that it 1) exists and 2) is effective when properly applied.

I say properly applied because the Bible is a spiritual book and the application of it's truths are predicated upon belief, faith in God's Son, Jesus Christ. Does this make it less true? Of course not. It's still true whether someone believes it or not. Belief doesn't change the truth. I may believe with all my heart that I put my keys in the kitchen the night before but it will not change the fact that I had actually put them on my dresser. Truth is always validated. And one can only discover validation of absolute, objective Biblical truth when applied in the Bible's prescribed manner. One who reads the Scriptures and fails to believe will not be able to understand them or be effectively changed by them.

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