Subconscious racism?

[MarvinAndroid42]

It is a common practice for people to refer shorthand to different groups of ethnic peoples.
Most common are "Hispanic", "Asian", "White" and "Black."

I think the usage of such terms exhibits subconscious and/or unintentional racism.

Oft times what is thought of as "Asian" is simply the East Asian people: Chinese, Japanese, Malaysian, Vietnamese, Korean, etc.
Evidently it categorises people by how they look, so the term is geographically inaccurate, leaving out India, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Russia, etc.

All of these labels categorise people according to their appearances, glossing over geography, science (one's biological race), culture (distinctive of every nation), etc.

Further illustrating racism is found in the broad use of the term "Asian."
I find it prejudical to refer to people who look "East Asian" as simply "Asian" whereas it is much more often that people would refer to people by their distinct nationality if they were of European appearance. For example, "I talked to that Asian guy" instead of a more likely, "I saw that Italian girl." People can talk about the diferences between Italians, French, Germans, etc but not express as much care in diffentiating the varied East Asian cultures and histories.

I think all together it is reverse discrimination, where everyone is aware of racism and hating it, but then still subconsciously committing racism by ignorant labels.

 

[Maxwell511]

I think the usage of such terms exhibits subconscious and/or unintentional racism.

I disagree. I think that it is people grouping other people into groups based on their attributes. It's the same as grouping people by hair colour.

Btw I am curious about your use of the term "biological race". Is there any scientific basis for this idea? Just out of personal curiousity.

 

[momalle1]

I disagree also, if I said that blonde woman hit my car, no one would think anything, why is it a problem if I say that Asian woman? In America we may refer to Italians, and be often wrong, rather than Europeans because most of us are of European descent. I think really all stems from what you are familiar with and isn't racist at all.

 

[Lynden1000]

Frankly, I can't tell the difference between Chinese, Japanese, Malaysian, Vietnamese and Korean people, so I might as well just use the term "Asian." It relays the general message I am trying to get across, so in that sense it works just fine.

No offense is meant by the term. If someone doesn't like it and politely says to me "I'm Chinese..or Japanese..or whatever," I will happily use whatever they prefer

 

[moogoob]

Holey moley. (The holiest of moleys) Where do I start?

Right now I live in what is best described as a "multicultural" area. I grew up here. Going to Toronto's Catholic School system (might as well be Public with prayers and less funding), I shared my class with (as examples) Miguel, Tony, Stacey, Abena, Li Nguyen and Mike. Miguel was from Chile, Tony from Italy, Stacey from Jamaica, Abena from Ghana, Li from Vietnam and Mike from Canada. Indeed, in this area, you are an outsider if you were born, or if your parents were born in this country. In common usage, Miguel was spanish. Not "south-american", not "Chilen" but spanish. Tony was Italian, even if he was actually born here. Stacey and Abena were black girls. If you tried calling them "african-american" nowadays they'd get mad at you, nevermind it's flat-out wrong to call a Jamaican that. What was Li? Let me go ask my two asian co-workers. Yup, he's asian. There are so many different groups of east-asians in Toronto it's not really neccesary to verbally seperate them, unless you need to (Chinatown vs. Koreatown). Mike was a Canadian and proud to be one.

This is my experience growing up in a multicultural city as a second-generation Canadian white guy. Broad generalisations are OK in conversation, unless there's a need to specify. Or if everyone's being overly-sensitive.

Peace!

 

[Voegelin]

Subconscious racism sounds similiar to the game the the Soviets used to imprison enemies of the regime: "sluggish schizophrenia ."

See...their enemies didn't have schizophrenia, that was obvious (as the people the OP cites are not racist) but something had to be done to prop up the regime as so many were sick of it and speaking out (as so many are sick of charges of "racism"). The answer was easy. A pathology nobody could see: "Sluggish schizophrenia" . Bingo! You have a weapon which on the surface appears well intentioned (as charges of subconsious racism pretend to be well intentioned) and there is little defense against it.

Nicolas Gomez Davila had an interesting insight into the mentality of those on both sides of the "racism" game:

The racist is annoyed because he secretly suspects that the races are equal. The anti-racist is annoyed because he secretly suspects that they are not.

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

Meh, race and ethnicity are your biggest identifiers.

"Hey, let's hang out with Jenny"
"Jenny? Which Jenny?"
"The White chick we met last night at the bar"

 

[KarateCowboy]

It is a common practice for people to refer shorthand to different groups of ethnic peoples.
Most common are "Hispanic", "Asian", "White" and "Black."

I think the usage of such terms exhibits subconscious and/or unintentional racism.

Oft times what is thought of as "Asian" is simply the East Asian people: Chinese, Japanese, Malaysian, Vietnamese, Korean, etc.
Evidently it categorises people by how they look, so the term is geographically inaccurate, leaving out India, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Russia, etc.

All of these labels categorise people according to their appearances, glossing over geography, science (one's biological race), culture (distinctive of every nation), etc.

Further illustrating racism is found in the broad use of the term "Asian."
I find it prejudical to refer to people who look "East Asian" as simply "Asian" whereas it is much more often that people would refer to people by their distinct nationality if they were of European appearance. For example, "I talked to that Asian guy" instead of a more likely, "I saw that Italian girl." People can talk about the diferences between Italians, French, Germans, etc but not express as much care in diffentiating the varied East Asian cultures and histories.

I think all together it is reverse discrimination, where everyone is aware of racism and hating it, but then still subconsciously committing racism by ignorant labels.

This is why we have so many different 'definitions' of racism. There are new and special uses of the word, like the ones you made, that aren't even bad. It used to be that racism was a strong belief that other races are inferior to your own and resulted in horrible mistreatment of others ranging from rape to genocide. Nowadays people call it racism just to point out that black people from Harlem are more likely than white people from Montana to do hip-hop dancing. It really renders the term useless.

Let me settle this: it is not racism. When white people point out differences among different Europeans more accurately than different Asians it is because they are more familiar with European cultures. My girlfriend is a beautiful Japanese girl (we've been together 2.5 years) and she does the same thing only with Asians. She can tell you the differences between Koreans and Japanese, and people from Hokaido and people from Okinawa. Just last Sunday she was telling me how all her friends from a northern praefecture in Japan(she's from Tokyo) walk slowly. However, when it comes to Western culture, she doesn't know the difference between Anglo and Saxon any more than she knows the difference between Bavarian and Bohemian. It is not racism, it's just life. If you really want to see racism then look to the Middle East and Africa where you see ethnic cleansing, genocide, and exile happening to people. When you see people having their limbs hacked off for speaking another language that is racism, not a suburban white kid trying to be funny by pretending he's Chinese and saying "I leelly leelly like labbit meat".

 

[kopilo]

It's not racism unless there is some form of favourtism or hate.

The human mind takes perceptual short cuts, such as when having to focus on a large group of things at any one given time; may cause a halo effect (She chooses awesome music, therefore the clothes she chooses must be good to), generalisation (he is male, males are all physically stronger then all females), stereo-types(he has bleechy blond hair, he must be a surfer) and first impressions (she was cutting her nails when I met her, so she must always cut her nails).

 

[akaibara]

Do you know many people of different races? Did they actually tell you they didn't like being refered to generally like that?

I pretty much can't tell what country someone is from(or their parents are from) unless they tell me(even Europeans).
Like moogoob said, people don't tend to mind the general references to them. At my school, asians were called 'asian' and they called themselves that too.

Hmm...I don't think I've ever heard anyone refer to me by my race...but thats a good thing because I don't really have one ;;;

 

[kopilo]

Do you know many people of different races? Did they actually tell you they didn't like being refered to generally like that?

I pretty much can't tell what country someone is from(or their parents are from) unless they tell me(even Europeans).
Like moogoob said, people don't tend to mind the general references to them. At my school, asians were called 'asian' and they called themselves that too.

Hmm...I don't think I've ever heard anyone refer to me by my race...but thats a good thing because I don't really have one ;;;

Ohh come on, Canadian day wasn't that long ago.

 

[moogoob]

Ohh come on, Canadian day wasn't that long ago.

Canada Day is to celebrate our nation, not our heritage. Most white Canadians assume identity with their ancestors anyways. I consider myself half-Austrian, half Nova Scotian. The only true Canadian ethnic groups are Maritimers, Quebequois, Natives, immigrants and mutts like me.

 

[KarateCowboy]

Canada Day is to celebrate our nation, not our heritage. Most white Canadians assume identity with their ancestors anyways. I consider myself half-Austrian, half Nova Scotian. The only true Canadian ethnic groups are Maritimers, Quebequois, Natives, immigrants and mutts like me.

I thought Mounties were a race.

 

[JustJack!]

It is a common practice for people to refer shorthand to different groups of ethnic peoples.
Most common are "Hispanic", "Asian", "White" and "Black."

I think the usage of such terms exhibits subconscious and/or unintentional racism.

Oft times what is thought of as "Asian" is simply the East Asian people: Chinese, Japanese, Malaysian, Vietnamese, Korean, etc.
Evidently it categorises people by how they look, so the term is geographically inaccurate, leaving out India, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Russia, etc.

All of these labels categorise people according to their appearances, glossing over geography, science (one's biological race), culture (distinctive of every nation), etc.

Further illustrating racism is found in the broad use of the term "Asian."
I find it prejudical to refer to people who look "East Asian" as simply "Asian" whereas it is much more often that people would refer to people by their distinct nationality if they were of European appearance. For example, "I talked to that Asian guy" instead of a more likely, "I saw that Italian girl." People can talk about the diferences between Italians, French, Germans, etc but not express as much care in diffentiating the varied East Asian cultures and histories.

I think all together it is reverse discrimination, where everyone is aware of racism and hating it, but then still subconsciously committing racism by ignorant labels.

I think you need to being such a puss, and quit misrepresenting us all as racists.

I also think you need to learn exactly what racism means.

And by making racists out of normal people, making the subject of race so taboo, you only further racial tensions.

 

[MarvinAndroid42]

by making racists out of normal people, making the subject of race so taboo

How do I make the subject taboo? I think there are deep flaws in the society's psyche - and it isn't evil to mention my opinions for the sake of reform is it?

you only further racial tensions.

It would ease racial tensions if people would refrain from using misnomers to label different ethnicities.

In the use of "Asian" in particular, I find that it stems from not having adequate knowledge of the different cultures of that region.
I don't believe it's particularly right to just be dismissive and say, "Well I kind of know the difference between Europeans, but I'm okay with not knowing about other nationalities" - which though you may not have said outright, but many people's words and areas of knowledge imply this. I'm wondering if the other countries might be too exotic, foreign or different for you to not have as much knowledge of, even though these minorities make up such a large part of your nation's population. ? By using these incredibly general terms, it clumps all these distinct cultures into a homologous mass, making the common citizen slack off in trying to understand individual cultures, simply sticking to "He's Asian" or "She's brown" though being satisfied with the knowing the different "White" people. I actually think using these terms builds barriers between the races.

Anyway, all my opinion that I'd like to perhaps talk about, but I'm not forcing it on you guys. More in theory stage right now.

 

[KarateCowboy]

How do I make the subject taboo? I think there are deep flaws in the society's psyche - and it isn't evil to mention my opinions for the sake of reform is it?


It would ease racial tensions if people would refrain from using misnomers to label different ethnicities.

In the use of "Asian" in particular, I find that it stems from not having adequate knowledge of the different cultures of that region.
I don't believe it's particularly right to just be dismissive and say, "Well I kind of know the difference between Europeans, but I'm okay with not knowing about other nationalities" - which though you may not have said outright, but many people's words and areas of knowledge imply this. I'm wondering if the other countries might be too exotic, foreign or different for you to not have as much knowledge of, even though these minorities make up such a large part of your nation's population. ? By using these incredibly general terms, it clumps all these distinct cultures into a homologous mass, making the common citizen slack off in trying to understand individual cultures, simply sticking to "He's Asian" or "She's brown" though being satisfied with the knowing the different "White" people. I actually think using these terms builds barriers between the races.

Anyway, all my opinion that I'd like to perhaps talk about, but I'm not forcing it on you guys. More in theory stage right now.

So would you say I am racist because I have an Asian girlfriend?

 

[moogoob]

How do I make the subject taboo? I think there are deep flaws in the society's psyche - and it isn't evil to mention my opinions for the sake of reform is it?


It would ease racial tensions if people would refrain from using misnomers to label different ethnicities.

In the use of "Asian" in particular, I find that it stems from not having adequate knowledge of the different cultures of that region.
I don't believe it's particularly right to just be dismissive and say, "Well I kind of know the difference between Europeans, but I'm okay with not knowing about other nationalities" - which though you may not have said outright, but many people's words and areas of knowledge imply this. I'm wondering if the other countries might be too exotic, foreign or different for you to not have as much knowledge of, even though these minorities make up such a large part of your nation's population. ? By using these incredibly general terms, it clumps all these distinct cultures into a homologous mass, making the common citizen slack off in trying to understand individual cultures, simply sticking to "He's Asian" or "She's brown" though being satisfied with the knowing the different "White" people. I actually think using these terms builds barriers between the races.

Anyway, all my opinion that I'd like to perhaps talk about, but I'm not forcing it on you guys. More in theory stage right now.

Hmm. I know that my two asian co-workers are both from Cambodia, but unless I was talking to someone fammiliar with them I wouldn't call them "Cambodian", I'd call them "asian". Controlling your level of detail is important. When talking to someone who knows jack all about computers, I'd never say "I bought just bought a bleeding-edge RADEON X800 pro 128 in PCI-E". Likewise, I'd never make the distinction between, say, Tamil and Singhalese when talking about a Sri Lankan person, unless the distinction is important to te conversation.

 

[kopilo]

Canada Day is to celebrate our nation, not our heritage. Most white Canadians assume identity with their ancestors anyways. I consider myself half-Austrian, half Nova Scotian. The only true Canadian ethnic groups are Maritimers, Quebequois, Natives, immigrants and mutts like me.

Blah to heritage, world war generally made the majority mutts anyway (people immigrating from country to country).

 

[kopilo]

I think there are deep flaws in the society's psyche - and it isn't evil to mention my opinions for the sake of reform is it?

As pointed out here, it is a human flaw not specific to any society. I try to refraim from using discriminatory terms myself but to become too negative about it may end up with you beating yourself up about nothing.

 

[Voegelin]

The livihood of many people is dependent upon there not being amity between the races.

They must constantly discover new cases of racial injustice in order to stay in business. Only natural some would, by rhetoric or deed, aggravate or incite racial disharmony.