Stupid In America

[IbrahimFahim]

Yes, I have not quite completed committing each of his utterances to memory quite yet.

You could have Googled it as easily.

I hope to have that done soon. Now, since that is the only comment you have about my post, I will assume that you agree with it and we have nothing else to discuss. So, B-bye.

Your comment was based on a complete Lack of knowledge of the author of my quote. Your commentary about the Founders is completely contradictory considering the source. I have been asked not to bully, so I saw no reason to rub salt in the wound.

I thought it was obvious you were completely out of touch with your own governmental model?

 

[Belk]

But you are not compelled by law to purchase the product of those private institutions the way you are compelled by law to fund the public school system whether you want, need or use their particular product. Are public schools a monopoly by strict definition? Probably not, but I wonder if you would be so charitable towards a private firm that had the ability to treat you the way the public school system does.

Do you feel that this in some way effects the quality of school education? If so, how and how would you go about resolving the issue?

 

[Wolseley]

Please tell us which country has a normal, functioning society.

Every country has a degree of dysfunction. However, Western societies, for whatever reason, in the last forty years, have thrown all vestiges of common sense to the wind. If there is a scale of idiocy, ours is scoring high---way up there. I suspect that Western society, especially the United States, Australia, and western Europe, is in the process of self-destructing; all of Professor Unwin's classic symptoms are certainly being prominently displayed, at any rate. If Unwin is correct, then we will follow the usual pattern if collapse observed in the 86 other cultures he studied, and we have about a century, more or less, left.

 

[IbrahimFahim]

Every country has a degree of dysfunction. However, Western societies, for whatever reason, in the last forty years, have thrown all vestiges of common sense to the wind. If there is a scale of idiocy, ours is scoring high---way up there. I suspect that Western society, especially the United States, Australia, and western Europe, is in the process of self-destructing; all of Professor Unwin's classic symptoms are certainly being prominently displayed, at any rate. If Unwin is correct, then we will follow the usual pattern if collapse observed in the 86 other cultures he studied, and we have about a century, more or less, left.

All of the ills you list exist in the countries with the best schools. What are they doing right that America does wrong?

 

[lordbt]

You could have Googled it as easily.

Oh, so now I am supposed to try to find the author of a quote you post. In the future, when you post a quote, you identify its author. That is how things are done.

Your comment was based on a complete Lack of knowledge of the author of my quote. Your commentary about the Founders is completely contradictory considering the source.

Your quote was and is irrelevant. The federal government has no Constitutional authority to involve itself in education. That is a fact. Since you have no argument against that, you turn the subject to me in an attempt to cover your ignorance of the American system of government.

I have been asked not to bully, so I saw no reason to rub salt in the wound.

Your pattern is to resort to bullying when you lack facts to support your position. If you wish to engage in a debate with me, go back to my initial post and respond to what I said.

I thought it was obvious you were completely out of touch with your own governmental model?

It is more than obvious who is out of touch with the US government model.

Psst. That would be you....

 

[HBGary]

Every country has a degree of dysfunction. However, Western societies, for whatever reason, in the last forty years, have thrown all vestiges of common sense to the wind. If there is a scale of idiocy, ours is scoring high---way up there. I suspect that Western society, especially the United States, Australia, and western Europe, is in the process of self-destructing; all of Professor Unwin's classic symptoms are certainly being prominently displayed, at any rate. If Unwin is correct, then we will follow the usual pattern if collapse observed in the 86 other cultures he studied, and we have about a century, more or less, left.

Great....

Now which country has a normal, functioning society?

 

[IbrahimFahim]

Oh, so now I am supposed to try to find the author of a quote you post. In the future, when you post a quote, you identify its author. That is how things are done.

If I comment on something, I make sure I know what I am talking about first. Do you not feel personal responsibility?

Your quote was and is irrelevant. The federal government has no Constitutional authority to involve itself in education. That is a fact.

Isn't promoting public good and promoting education one and the same. An educated society and workforce is necessary for a well functioning social order.

Since you have no argument against that, you turn the subject to me in an attempt to cover your ignorance of the American system of government.

Really?! So the whole philosophical underpinnings of your government, which you are completely opposed to, that you do not seem to be aware of, seems to disagree with you. You're also ignoring developing nations and their history with public education. You do not have to like that you are wrong, but you should at least understand why. There are whole volumes of political science philosophy and developmental history that support public education as a necessity for stable governance.

Your pattern is to resort to bullying when you lack facts to support your position. If you wish to engage in a debate with me, go back to my initial post and respond to what I said.

The definition of bullying here is to know more than the other person. Are you really prepared to get into a discussion of developmental state theory, the importance of the middle class to liberal governance, the economic development of public education, or the nuances of societal stability?

It is more than obvious who is out of touch with the US government model.

Psst. That would be you....

The person who is familiar with Jefferson (and can recognize him when quoted, and can also successfully google)

Keep trying!!!

 

[lordbt]

If I comment on something, I make sure I know what I am talking about first. Do you not feel personal responsibility?

Responsibility for what? For your poor posting skills?

Isn't promoting public good and promoting education one and the same. An educated society and workforce is necessary for a well functioning social order.

We are governed by a Constitution. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with it. That would keep you from making irrelevant comments like the one above.

Really?! So the whole philosophical underpinnings of your government, which you are completely opposed to, that you do not seem to be aware of, seems to disagree with you. You're also ignoring developing nations and their history with public education. You do not have to like that you are wrong, but you should at least understand why. There are whole volumes of political science philosophy and developmental history that support public education as a necessity for stable governance.

You have not demonstrated that I am wrong about anything. In fact, you have not addressed anything I have said.

The definition of bullying here is to know more than the other person.

Then you are not guilty of bullying. By that definition you have certainly never bullied me.

Are you really prepared to get into a discussion of developmental state theory, the importance of the middle class to liberal governance, the economic development of public education, or the nuances of societal stability?

Oh gosh, I am so scared right now. Not.

The person who is familiar with Jefferson (and can recognize him when quoted, and can also successfully google)

Keep trying!!!

Why dont you tell me what role Jefferson played at the Constitutional Convention. Then explain how that quote of his is even remotely relevant.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Every country has a degree of dysfunction. However, Western societies, for whatever reason, in the last forty years, have thrown all vestiges of common sense to the wind. If there is a scale of idiocy, ours is scoring high---way up there. I suspect that Western society, especially the United States, Australia, and western Europe, is in the process of self-destructing; all of Professor Unwin's classic symptoms are certainly being prominently displayed, at any rate. If Unwin is correct, then we will follow the usual pattern if collapse observed in the 86 other cultures he studied, and we have about a century, more or less, left.

When 'common sense' involves the homophobia you expressed in post 15, then I suspect it ought to thrown to the wind, and the sooner the better.

 

[linssue55]

Compulsary education............. Evil!

 

[Umaro]

Heck, here in WVa the average teacher salary is higher than the state median income. So, we pay them more than we make ourselves... which is all fine and dandy until you hear them complaining about how bad they have it. (we won't get into the whole benefit package thing... vacation, holidays, insurance, retirement, etc...)

Whats wrong with a job that often requires a masters degree being paid more than the state median income? Most any job that requires a masters degree will fall above that line, and of professional jobs, teachers are on the lower end. An average of 50k seems a pretty reasonable amount to earn.

 

[contango]

But they work elsewhere...

Do they? Where do they work so well?

Let me think... the London Underground where the capital city can be held to ransom?

Teaching unions where bad teachers never seem to get fired but just get shuffled around?

Unions aren't a bad thing in and of themselves. But as with everything else the pendulum swings this way and that, and unions have gone from being a necessity to prevent abuse of workers to a tool to abuse employers.

 

[IbrahimFahim]

Do they? Where do they work so well?

Let me think... the London Underground where the capital city can be held to ransom?

Teaching unions where bad teachers never seem to get fired but just get shuffled around?

Unions aren't a bad thing in and of themselves. But as with everything else the pendulum swings this way and that, and unions have gone from being a necessity to prevent abuse of workers to a tool to abuse employers.

Here are the top performing school systems in the OECD.

World education rankings: which country does best at reading, maths and science? | News | guardian.co.uk

Almost all of the top schools have teachers unions. It seems they work well in the top schools. Being a good school or bad school does not seem to hinge on union status.

 

[RedDead1981]

I don't have much time to type this since I'm actually writing lesson plans for this week. But teachers usually work more than 6 hours a day. I get to work at 7:30, don't leave until 4:00, get no real lunch or break to speak of (I prep during this time), and I usually bring work home. It's a touch easier for me on the prep end since I teach special education and only have 7 kids (no need to run off 90 copies of the same test, manage 15 groups, etc), but make up for it in hair-pullingly difficult instructional time.

 

[DaisyDay]

Unions - the bane of virtually everything good.

Except decent wages and benefits for the working person - well, some of us consider that good.

 

[Dairy]

John Stossel has another nice article on the American education system today. Thought it good reading.

"Exciting Schools"

snippet:

America's government-managed schools are a mess. On international math tests, U.S. students rank behind countries like Hungary. It's one reason I called my special "Stupid in America." The bigger reason is that it is stupid to trust something important like education to a government monopoly.
But, as I write in the my syndicated column this week, there is good news:

Read more: Exciting Schools - Stossel's Take Blog - Fox Business

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

John Stossel has another nice article on the American education system today. Thought it good reading.

"Exciting Schools"

snippet:



Read more: Exciting Schools - Stossel's Take Blog - Fox Business

Stossel ranks somewhere between National Enquirer rejects and Lifesite graduates.