"Study Islam" - what does it mean?

[crystalpc]

A basic introduction to Islamic Law

The link doesn't work, this is shirriha<spelling> law is it not? Where is mercy in it? What does mercy mean? Would it not have been kinder to just kill them swiftly? Rather than torture them? See this is what I am appalled at we do not even do animals like that.....It is horrifying to even think of doing it to an animal much less a human being.

 

[Ibrahim]

How Allah operates...... uhg
Your trying to make these murderous dogs the prophet put to punishment sound lke they were some kind of aladin from Disney. Some kind of thief who steals to save himself or family from starvation lol. it clearly says the men drank the unrine and milk of the camels and cows and stole from the farmer then brutally killed the innocent farmer when they were doen with him and his livestock. They will recieve worse punishment in the Hellfire for their crimes and murder. These punishments may seem cruel but it prevents more crimes like it and that is why the middle east has one of the lowest rates of crime in the world along with china and japan. You act like the bible doesnt speak of violence to disbeleivers or criminals...... why such the shock when you hear this from the Hadith but you justify it when it comes from your own scripture? You don't hear muslims calling out Christians about these things in the Bible.....these arent the prophets or man made punishments these are God's punishments, if you have a problem with that you can take it up with him on the day of resurrection. I think westerners are wimps when it comes to carrying out punishment tocriminals and that is why the West ahs more crime than any other place in the world because criminals ahve no fear of their actions. You don't see muslims mocking the prophets for preaching of stoneing ect as punishments.
Before i have any feelings set in stone about this id need to read other sources and consult my Imaam about this and see if this is a weak hadith or is considered a true Hadith.

 

[crystalpc]

How Allah operates...... uhg
Your trying to make these murderous dogs the prophet put to punishment sound lke they were some kind of aladin from Disney. Some kind of thief who steals to save himself or family from starvation lol. it clearly says the men drank the unrine and milk of the camels and cows and stole from the farmer then brutally killed the innocent farmer when they were doen with him and his livestock. They will recieve worse punishment in the Hellfire for their crimes and murder. These punishments may seem cruel but it prevents more crimes like it and that is why the middle east has one of the lowest rates of crime in the world along with china and japan.

Where is the kindness in it, where is the mercy in it, allah is suppose to be merciful

You act like the bible doesnt speak of violence to disbeleivers or criminals...... why such the shock when you hear this from the Hadith but you justify it when it comes from your own scripture?You don't hear muslims calling out Christians about these things in the Bible

I would put this challenge to you, give me one scripture in the new testament where it tells us we should go out and cut someones hands or feet off and leave them to die. .....or to kill anyone, or harm anyone physically in any way..ONE SCRIPTURE WILL SUFFICE....

these arent the prophets or man made punishments these are God's punishments, if you have a problem with that you can take it up with him on the day of resurrection. I think westerners are wimps when it comes to carrying out punishment tocriminals and that is why the West ahs more crime than any other place in the world because criminals ahve no fear of their actions.

Then allah cannot be God if he needs men to torture others for him.. Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord I will repay, not go out and kill them and avenge me...

You don't see muslims mocking the prophets for preaching of stoneing ect as punishments.
Before i have any feelings set in stone about this id need to read other sources and consult my Imaam about this and see if this is a weak hadith or is considered a true Hadith.

Certainly don't because the prophets would kill them or worse torture them because alllah is to weak to do so for himself. See now that is what makes me extremely frustrated....They are not the same god...

 

[Ibrahim]

Matt 15:3-4
"Jesus replied, "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, ´Honor your father and mother´ and ´Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death´."

Allah is too weak to do it for himself??? Surely they wil lpay dearly in the hell fire if that is what Allah wishes but don't mock God because he gives us punishments to enact upon criminals who slaughter innocent men for their riches and deviate off the path of righteousness. I don't know what your talking about honestly when you say where is the kindness and mercy ect.... THESE MEN WERE ANIMALS... id you read the entire Hadith or only the punishment?? Allah will show kindness and mercy if they so deserve it and only HE knows if they deserve such things not you!
The prophet punished these ex muslims for their betrayl of Islam and their murderous crimes against their fellow muslim. Your twisted to spin this around and make these men out to be martyrs for their deaths.
Crimes that deserved the death in the Old Testament

According to Numb 35:31 there are criminals which "deserves to die". In the Old Testament the following crimes deserved the death penalty:

1. Murder (Gen 9:6, Ex 21:12, Numb 35:16-21).

2. Abuse of father or mother (Ex 21:15).

3. Speaking a curse over parents (Ex 21:17).

4. Blasphemy against God (Lev 24:14-16,23).

5. Breaking the Sabbath (Ex 31:14, Numb 15:32-36).

6. Practicing magic (Ex 22:18).

7. Fortune telling and practicing sorcery (Lev 20:27).

8. Religious people who mislead others to fall away (Deut 13:1-5, 18:20).

9. Adultery and fornication (Lev 20:10-12, Deut 22:22).

10. If a woman has intercourse before marriage (Deut 22:20-21).

11. If two people have intercourse when one of them is engaged. (Deut 22:23-24).

12. The daughter of a priest practicing prostitution (Lev 21:9).

13. Rape of someone who is engaged (Deut 22:25).

14. Having intercourse with animals (Ex 22:19).

15. Worshipping idols (Ex 22:20, Lev 20:1-5, Deut 17:2-7).

16. Incest (Lev 20:11-12, 14, 19-21).

17. Homosexuality (Lev 20:13).

18. Kidnapping (Ex 21:16).

19. To bear false testimony at a trial (Deut 19:16, 19).

20. Contempt of court (Deut 17:8-13).

The manner of execution in the Old Testament could be stoning, burning, using a sword, spear or arrow (Lev 20:27, 21:9, Ex 19:13, 32:27, Numb 25:7-8).
Genesis 9:6

"Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made man."

Numbers 35:31

"Do not accept a ransom for the life of a murderer, who deserves to die. He must surely be put to death."

Numbers 35:33

"Do not pollute the land where you are. Bloodshed pollutes the land, and atonement cannot be made for the land on which blood has been shed, except by the blood of the one who shed it."

"Anyone who strikes a man and kills him shall surely be put to death." Ex 21:12

Matt 5:21-22

"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ´Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.´ But I tell you … anyone who says, `You fool!´ will be in danger of the fire of hell."

Matt 18:6

"But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea."

Luke 19:27

"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them – bring them here and kill them in front of me."

Luke 20:14-16

"But when the tenants saw him, they talked the matter over. ´This is the heir,´ they said. ´Let´s kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.´ So they threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. What then will the owner of the vineyard do to them? He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyards to others."

I think this can show God does not object to the death penalty of criminals.

 

[sijo]

Matt 15:3-4
"Jesus replied, "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, ´Honor your father and mother´ and ´Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death´."

Allah is too weak to do it for himself??? Surely they wil lpay dearly in the hell fire if that is what Allah wishes but don't mock God because he gives us punishments to enact upon criminals who slaughter innocent men for their riches and deviate off the path of righteousness. I don't know what your talking about honestly when you say where is the kindness and mercy ect.... THESE MEN WERE ANIMALS... id you read the entire Hadith or only the punishment?? Allah will show kindness and mercy if they so deserve it and only HE knows if they deserve such things not you!
The prophet punished these ex muslims for their betrayl of Islam and their murderous crimes against their fellow muslim. Your twisted to spin this around and make these men out to be martyrs for their deaths.
Crimes that deserved the death in the Old Testament

According to Numb 35:31 there are criminals which "deserves to die". In the Old Testament the following crimes deserved the death penalty:

1. Murder (Gen 9:6, Ex 21:12, Numb 35:16-21).

2. Abuse of father or mother (Ex 21:15).

3. Speaking a curse over parents (Ex 21:17).

4. Blasphemy against God (Lev 24:14-16,23).

5. Breaking the Sabbath (Ex 31:14, Numb 15:32-36).

6. Practicing magic (Ex 22:18).

7. Fortune telling and practicing sorcery (Lev 20:27).

8. Religious people who mislead others to fall away (Deut 13:1-5, 18:20).

9. Adultery and fornication (Lev 20:10-12, Deut 22:22).

10. If a woman has intercourse before marriage (Deut 22:20-21).

11. If two people have intercourse when one of them is engaged. (Deut 22:23-24).

12. The daughter of a priest practicing prostitution (Lev 21:9).

13. Rape of someone who is engaged (Deut 22:25).

14. Having intercourse with animals (Ex 22:19).

15. Worshipping idols (Ex 22:20, Lev 20:1-5, Deut 17:2-7).

16. Incest (Lev 20:11-12, 14, 19-21).

17. Homosexuality (Lev 20:13).

18. Kidnapping (Ex 21:16).

19. To bear false testimony at a trial (Deut 19:16, 19).

20. Contempt of court (Deut 17:8-13).

The manner of execution in the Old Testament could be stoning, burning, using a sword, spear or arrow (Lev 20:27, 21:9, Ex 19:13, 32:27, Numb 25:7-8).
Genesis 9:6

"Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made man."

Numbers 35:31

"Do not accept a ransom for the life of a murderer, who deserves to die. He must surely be put to death."

Numbers 35:33

"Do not pollute the land where you are. Bloodshed pollutes the land, and atonement cannot be made for the land on which blood has been shed, except by the blood of the one who shed it."

"Anyone who strikes a man and kills him shall surely be put to death." Ex 21:12

Matt 5:21-22

"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ´Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.´ But I tell you … anyone who says, `You fool!´ will be in danger of the fire of hell."

Matt 18:6

"But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea."

Luke 19:27

"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them – bring them here and kill them in front of me."

Luke 20:14-16

"But when the tenants saw him, they talked the matter over. ´This is the heir,´ they said. ´Let´s kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.´ So they threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. What then will the owner of the vineyard do to them? He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyards to others."

I think this can show God does not object to the death penalty of criminals.

Well......... Ibrahim....

Only one important matter to remind you - right interpretation is impossible without giving proper justice to the context.

Did u ever hear it? If yes, after giving justice to the contexts, read it again. If no, please go, learn and come back.

Some facts would be painful to you and to me. But truth is truth. I am a Catholic and I have no problem to sincerely apologize for the wrongs committed by Church to Galileo or others. I found muslims accepting that there are negative verses in Quran; and Hadiths contained a reasonable length of violence. They further agreed that till such controversial quranic verses and hadiths continues, the number of young people blowing up for allah would increase always. Compare their views with what we are seeing today.

Please try to live as a good muslim rather than a mere muslim.

sijo.

 

[traveller]

Only one important matter to remind you - right interpretation is impossible without giving proper justice to the context.

Sijo isn't that statement rather hypocritical seen as u forget to practice what u preach!

 

[sijo]

Sijo isn't that statement rather hypocritical seen as u forget to practice what u preach!

NEVER.... a hundred times.

If yes, prove it. What injustice i had done when i took stuff quran and hadiths when i wrote about the sexual atrocities and marriages of mohamed? what i took out of context when i quote from Sirat rasulallah about the brutal nature of mohamed? what injustice i have done when i quoted sahih bukhari about another example for the "generosity" of mohamed?

i don't understand your intention.

sijo.

 

[traveller]

then u agree that Ibrahim has done no injustice by quoting directly from the bible? afterall thats what u did for the hadith and sirah!

 

[sijo]

then u agree that Ibrahim has done no injustice by quoting directly from the bible? afterall thats what u did for the hadith and sirah!

Then of course, you have a great burden to quote and explain to us the concerned topic from Sirat Rasulallah with full justice to the context. Could you take up this challenge?

If you are trying to say that Mohamed conducted brutalities in the pretext of "Holy War" or to spread Islam, don't waste your time. That's what his followers had done and is doing in AD 2004 also. If you have some other contexts, I badly need to hear it from YOU.

anticipate to hear from u soon.

sijo.

 

[traveller]

i dont believe i do - the onus is on you to fully research and come up with an intellectual argument to defend your position rather than mere rhetoric - if u really were a person seeking to understand other faiths you would do this. No-one is asking u to accept Islam!!! gosh ... but a little less attacking and alot more engaging would be nice

peace

 

[Ibrahim]

Ameen, and also sijo i do not think that these punishments in the Bible are bad either. I blindly follow God because he is the only thing we can put our trust into fully to blindly follow unlike men. I am not bashing your faith im merely showing you that these are but a few scriptures that exisit in the Bible and were not banned from it hundreds of years ago. I never said look how brutal they are like you are, im just trying to show you that severe crime is met with a severe punishment. All of those crimes should be punished and it is horrible chrsitians need to feel "apologetic" about these.... what do you need to apologize for? We are desensitized in this society to these severe criems becuase millions get away with each day by day, perhaps some of the people on this board who won't admitt to it. All i know is i stand by my lod and i do not question his will.