Students Face Impeachment, Probation, for attending tequilla-themed party

KarateCowboy

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I sympathize with those who are disgusted at something like this happening, but I immediately think, "Why don't people choose their college with appropriate care?"

Sure, it's possible to attend a liberal college and get by without this or some other suppression of free speech smacking them down, but folks--you have to consider it just like you'd take account of the tuition, driving distance, academic reputation, and a dozen other things that go into making a selection!!
Dennis Prager talks a lot about that: how the modern American university has become more of a seminary for Leftism; the purpose is not to educate but indoctrinate. He has a lot of stuff about how shocked parents are when they send their kids to college with normal American values and they come back Leftists.
 
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keith99

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I just might decide to host a tequila party. The invites will say:

Bring Tequila, Sotol or Mezcal.

The following are already represented:

Aretta (Blanco, resposada)
Penca Azul (resposado)
Patron (Anejo)
El Tesoro Platinum
Sauza Tres Generaciones Plata
Los Azulejos (resposada)
Hacienda de Chihuahua Sotol (blanco,resposada, anejo)

Margarita's are on the menu, so limes, lime juice and triple sec are all needed. Quality triple sec such as Gran Marnier, Cointreau or Citronge are preferred.

Any Gringo bringing garbage like Cuervo (other than reserve de la familia) will be escorted off the premises. Same for any wanting Margaritas made with Anejo.
 
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SummerMadness

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This is a private university, so talking about violation of the Constitution is pushing it. Complaints about due process are not new, this is one of the reasons why people don't want colleges handling cases involving sexual assault, there are too many people that get away with sexual assault in the process because universities don't want to ruin their reputation.

The bylaws for the student council are no different than a private Christian university with rules against underage drinking and premarital sex. If you don't like the rules, campaign to have them changed or choose a different university at the outset. The students on the council also have the option about not serving on the post; when I was in college I elected to not do sports because I thought the NCAA rules were cumbersome and antiquated. I didn't become an athlete, violate the rules and start complaining if punished. No, I did not participate in an organization I did not agree with. Had I felt more strongly, I would have worked to change the rules (which I think students could do via nationwide strike).

And Bowdoin does not reflect most colleges, you are free to be racist at colleges. Just because you post a story from a blog that seeks to amplify these types of stories doesn't mean there's an actual trend. At my university, there is a racist school newspaper that is put out every week, they're free to do it.
 
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SummerMadness

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Dennis Prager talks a lot about that: how the modern American university has become more of a seminary for Leftism; the purpose is not to educate but indoctrinate. He has a lot of stuff about how shocked parents are when they send their kids to college with normal American values and they come back Leftists.
What are normal American values?
 
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KarateCowboy

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I just might decide to host a tequila party. The invites will say:

Bring Tequila, Sotol or Mezcal.

The following are already represented:

Aretta (Blanco, resposada)
Penca Azul (resposado)
Patron (Anejo)
El Tesoro Platinum
Sauza Tres Generaciones Plata
Los Azulejos (resposada)
Hacienda de Chihuahua Sotol (blanco,resposada, anejo)

Margarita's are on the menu, so limes, lime juice and triple sec are all needed. Quality triple sec such as Gran Marnier, Cointreau or Citronge are preferred.

Any Gringo bringing garbage like Cuervo (other than reserve de la familia) will be escorted off the premises. Same for any wanting Margaritas made with Anejo.
Dude this triggered me so bad.... Someone get me a safe space. I imagine the standard Safe Space will do ...

http://www.officialpsds.com/images/stocks/Padded-Room-stock5852.jpg
 
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TerranceL

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Hehe, going out of your way to avoid the issue there? A sombrero by itself is not offensive, how it is used can be offensive. This may come as a shock to you, but perhaps you are not the one to dictate what people find offensive or not. Many Latino student organizations have a problem with how Mexicans are portrayed.
Which is hilarious because no-one has stated how it was used that was offensive, apparently just wearing it is offensive if you happen to be have the wrong color of skin.

You can argue the student council is going overboard and the situation could be handled differently, but you should not walk around complaining because there is now a large enough population that speaks out about a stereotype.
Especially when the people getting offended don't even come from the culture that's somehow being insulted. Such great white defenders of the poor brown people!

As said earlier, just because you were unaware of the offense for a long time doesn't make it okay. No one is stopping you from saying or doing what you want, but don't expect others to sit back and ignore you.
Except I actually live with plenty of mexicans. On my street if you ask what the white guy is doing, they know your talking about me. I know very well the attitude of my neighbors, and I talked to them about this this afternoon. They were shocked and amused that anybody would get offended over a hat. It's almost as if to them Mexican culture is more than a hat.

What do you mean by segregationist? Most people are not segregationists, true, what does that have to do with this topic?
That's the whole objective here, to ensure that people of one culture NEVER come near the things of another culture. It's obvious.

Mentally infantile because they consider it offensive? How are they bigots?
They are getting offended on behalf of other people. It will come as a shock, but people who live outside the United States and don't live in the first world aren't automatically childlike and need the big first worlders to defend them.

They are bigots because the only reason they think this is offensive is because of the race of the people involved.

Do a survey and ask Mexicans if they find theme parties where people "dress up like Mexicans" donning pancho, sombreros and fake moustaches is offensive, insensitive, or a poor choice? Do they feel honored by these parties? Do you feel these parties are harmless fun or perpetuate a hurtful stereotype?
My neighbors, who actually are from the culture being emulated, thought it was funny.

As my neighbors 74 year old grandfather said, "If a gringo wants to dress up and look silly while drinking tequila why would I care?"

Until you have this information, it's not your place to say whether people should be offended. How very paternalistic of you.

Says the great western cultural savior of the poor brown people.
 
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TerranceL

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The ironic part is such a rule could be rooted in the same idea, just applied from a different place, that people have a right to not be offended. Racists are typically very offended with those of different races mingling.

This is very much the issue.
 
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TerranceL

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One of them is an equity trader with Deutsche Bank, and another one is an associate at a pretty fancy law firm, after clerking for a Federal Judge, so I think that "ruined" is a pretty disingenuous verb to be using in this instance. Perhaps something more like, "Duke University briefly inconvenienced its entire Lacrosse team"

No doubt you'd be totally fine going thru life with people thinking you were a rapist.
 
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SummerMadness

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Which is hilarious because no-one has stated how it was used that was offensive, apparently just wearing it is offensive if you happen to be have the wrong color of skin.
Given that this article come from an anti-college website, perhaps you should look into how the items were used that caused offense. Don't expect the anti-college website to present any information that might run contrary to their agenda.

Especially when the people getting offended don't even come from the culture that's somehow being insulted. Such great white defenders of the poor brown people!
Except the people that were offended apparently do come from that culture. Don't just assume that everyone is non-Hispanic white.

Students debate articles of impeachment at BSG meeting

Except I actually live with plenty of mexicans. On my street if you ask what the white guy is doing, they know your talking about me. I know very well the attitude of my neighbors, and I talked to them about this this afternoon. They were shocked and amused that anybody would get offended over a hat. It's almost as if to them Mexican culture is more than a hat.
What question did you ask them, "Do you think wearing a Mexican-style sombrero is offensive?" How you ask the question matters. How many people did you ask? Anecdotal evidence does not match a survey. My Mexican friends and acquaintances certainly have a different perspective. Come back with a survey before you exclaim nothing is offensive.

That's the whole objective here, to ensure that people of one culture NEVER come near the things of another culture. It's obvious.
No it's not, you can embrace culture without trivializing it and turning it into a joke. If you wanted to have a tequila party, why the need to incorporate Mexican sombreros? Is tequila somehow related to Mexican hats? Your attitude comes off as people should be thankful that someone would incorporate their culture into a party (even if it's inaccurate and ignorant).

I know a guy that uses an instrument from my culture in a band he formed, they even play classic tunes from my culture. However, they also made a parody video where they talk about the "origins" of the group and it was filled with stereotypical characters from another culture unrelated to my culture completely. That's offensive; I'm not going to scream at him and accuse him of intolerance or bigotry, but it's annoying that despite getting some things right, he gets most of it wrong. Knowing you, you would claim that I am too sensitive because I think someone dumbly associates my culture with another culture. It's no different than saying a Brit is French.

They are getting offended on behalf of other people. It will come as a shock, but people who live outside the United States and don't live in the first world aren't automatically childlike and need the big first worlders to defend them.

They are bigots because the only reason they think this is offensive is because of the race of the people involved.
Not true. You're assuming everyone is non-Hispanic white and there are no students of Mexican descent on the campus.

My neighbors, who actually are from the culture being emulated, thought it was funny.

As my neighbors 74 year old grandfather said, "If a gringo wants to dress up and look silly while drinking tequila why would I care?"
And my Mexican friend feels the opposite, because we all know anecdotes that support my beliefs are the truth. Let's go find all the black people who are not offended by the Confederate flag (despite >75% of African Americans considering a symbol of hate and oppression)!
 
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Gadarene

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Hehe, going out of your way to avoid the issue there? A sombrero by itself is not offensive, how it is used can be offensive. This may come as a shock to you, but perhaps you are not the one to dictate what people find offensive or not. Many Latino student organizations have a problem with how Mexicans are portrayed.

What makes them the bottom line on what is offensive to Mexicans or Latinos/Latinas instead, given that plenty of people in those groups don't have a problem with parties like this.

You can argue the student council is going overboard and the situation could be handled differently, but you should not walk around complaining because there is now a large enough population that speaks out about a stereotype.

Is it "large enough" though, or is it just a particularly whingy minority? No good will come of shackling society to the mores of its easiest offended. It is a weakness.

Mentally infantile because they consider it offensive? How are they bigots?

Mentally infantile because every culture does this to every other and the vast majority of people outside of the contemporary college hugbox don't give a toss about it.

Until you have this information, it's not your place to say whether people should be offended. How very paternalistic of you.

But it somehow is your place to defend those that are taking offence over it, even though lots of Mexicans don't get offended by this stuff? How is he being paternalistic and you aren't, exactly? How does that work?

Given our previous discussions, I imagine it will just be "different" in some completely ad hoc way ^_^
 
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Gadarene

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One of them is an equity trader with Deutsche Bank, and another one is an associate at a pretty fancy law firm, after clerking for a Federal Judge, so I think that "ruined" is a pretty disingenuous verb to be using in this instance. Perhaps something more like, "Duke University briefly inconvenienced its entire Lacrosse team"

Only because they thought tooth and nail to get it, no thanks to the usual suspects in the college system.
 
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SummerMadness

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What makes them the bottom line on what is offensive to Mexicans or Latinos/Latinas instead, given that plenty of people in those groups don't have a problem with parties like this.

Is it "large enough" though, or is it just a particularly whingy minority? No good will come of shackling society to the mores of its easiest offended. It is a weakness.

Mentally infantile because every culture does this to every other and the vast majority of people outside of the contemporary college hugbox don't give a toss about it.

But it somehow is your place to defend those that are taking offence over it, even though lots of Mexicans don't get offended by this stuff? How is he being paternalistic and you aren't, exactly? How does that work?

Given our previous discussions, I imagine it will just be "different" in some completely ad hoc way ^_^
Where has it been established that most Mexicans do not find the use of sombreros as parody, offensive or tasteless? We have people accusing others of being offended for a culture they are not part of, and in that same vein we have people claiming that those in a particular culture are not offended.

My opinion, this student council went overboard and they could have dealt with this in a more constructive manner. But the question of offense and whether people should be offended, that's not your place.
 
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Gadarene

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Given that this article come from an anti-college website, perhaps you should look into how the items were used that caused offense. Don't expect the anti-college website to present any information that might run contrary to their agenda.

Do you have any evidence that does indicate that things didn't occur as stated, or are you just assuming?

Burden of proof is on you here if you think things didn't go down as stated.

What question did you ask them, "Do you think wearing a Mexican-style sombrero is offensive?" How you ask the question matters. How many people did you ask? Anecdotal evidence does not match a survey. My Mexican friends and acquaintances certainly have a different perspective. Come back with a survey before you exclaim nothing is offensive.

The point is the Mexican offendatrons in this college don't speak for all Mexicans any more than Terrance's sample does, so the point is moot.

No it's not, you can embrace culture without trivializing it and turning it into a joke. If you wanted to have a tequila party, why the need to incorporate Mexican sombreros? Is tequila somehow related to Mexican hats? Your attitude comes off as people should be thankful that someone would incorporate their culture into a party (even if it's inaccurate and ignorant).

Why is a sombrero a joke? And again, even if so, why can't they just take the joke, like every other culture does?

You think St Patrick's Day is representative of a normal day in Ireland? But I don't see the Irish chapters in many colleges getting up in arms about the green beer.

I know a guy that uses an instrument from my culture in a band he formed, they even play classic tunes from my culture. However, they also made a parody video where they talk about the "origins" of the group and it was filled with stereotypical characters from another culture unrelated to my culture completely. That's offensive; I'm not going to scream at him and accuse him of intolerance or bigotry, but it's annoying that despite getting some things right, he gets most of it wrong. Knowing you, you would claim that I am too sensitive because I think someone dumbly associates my culture with another culture. It's no different than saying a Brit is French.

If someone says a Brit is French, I'd laugh. If it's a joke, eh, I'll probably tell some of my own back. If it's that or a mistake, I'm not going to get them disciplined for it.

The kiddie-winks need to grow up.
 
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Gadarene

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Where has it been established that most Mexicans do not find the use of sombreros as parody offensive or tasteless? We have people accusing others of being offended for a culture they are not part of, and in that same vein we have people claiming that those in a particular culture are not offended.

Where has it been established that most do? Your position is no stronger than mine.

My opinion, this student council went overboard and they could have dealt with this in a more constructive manner.

Obviously.

But the question of offense and whether people should be offended, that's not your place.

We have the same argument here - some subsection of the group in question thinks it is offensive, and another doesn't.

Which should get to set the bar for what should be considered permissible behaviour, and why? Obviously in your case you think it's the offendatron contigent - why?
 
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SummerMadness

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Where has it been established that most do? Your position is no stronger than mine.
I'll take the word of the students and associations expressing offense on the issue.

We have the same argument here - some subsection of the group in question thinks it is offensive, and another doesn't.

Which should get to set the bar for what should be considered permissible behaviour, and why? Obviously in your case you think it's the offendatron contigent - why?
I don't think whethere it is offensive is in question, the community at Bowdoin seems to have spoken on that issue.

I would say read through the editorials to get a sense of what's happening at the college: http://bowdoinorient.com/article/10975
 
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KarateCowboy

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Where has it been established that most Mexicans do not find the use of sombreros as parody, offensive or tasteless? We have people accusing others of being offended for a culture they are not part of, and in that same vein we have people claiming that those in a particular culture are not offended.

My opinion, this student council went overboard and they could have dealt with this in a more constructive manner. But the question of offense and whether people should be offended, that's not your place.
If it's not our place to tell them they should not be offended, then who is ANYBODY to tell the partiers they should consider their behavior offensive? Maybe the students practice a culture in which it is considered asinine to be offended over something so trivial? If that is the case, then how is the school admins, student government, or anyone of Hispanic cultural background to them that offense is justified?

At the root of this crackdown on revelers is a puritanical spirit gone wrong, mixed with plain old oikophobic bigotry.
 
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keith99

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Given that this article come from an anti-college website, perhaps you should look into how the items were used that caused offense. Don't expect the anti-college website to present any information that might run contrary to their agenda.

Except the people that were offended apparently do come from that culture. Don't just assume that everyone is non-Hispanic white.

Students debate articles of impeachment at BSG meeting

Interesting link, they delayed the impeachment hearing because they do NOT have a defined process for impeachment.

Ex post facto anyone?
 
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TerranceL

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Given that this article come from an anti-college website, perhaps you should look into how the items were used that caused offense. Don't expect the anti-college website to present any information that might run contrary to their agenda.
A website that discusses college controversies is anti-college?

Except the people that were offended apparently do come from that culture. Don't just assume that everyone is non-Hispanic white.
So they come from Mexico? You know places where that actually is the culture.

Students debate articles of impeachment at BSG meeting

At the party, several students wore sombreros, and the email invitation stated “we’re not saying it’s a fiesta, but we’re also not not saying that :) (we’re not saying that),” sparking backlash as the third prominent instance of ethnic stereotyping at Bowdoin in sixteen months.
So it's as was already stated, much ado about nothing.

According to one of party’s hosts, she has been placed on social probation until March 2017, must participate in an educational program and Active Bystander Training, must move out of her room in Stowe Hall into Chamberlain Hall and has been banned from Ivies-related events and Spring Gala.
That's amazing, ATTENTION YOU HAVE BEEN FOUND GUILTY OF THOUGHT CRIME! OFF TO THE GULAG!

What question did you ask them, "Do you think wearing a Mexican-style sombrero is offensive?" How you ask the question matters. How many people did you ask? Anecdotal evidence does not match a survey. My Mexican friends and acquaintances certainly have a different perspective. Come back with a survey before you exclaim nothing is offensive.
I got about halfway through reading the article, then one of them asked to see it so I txted it to them all and let them read it for themselves. I asked what they thought of it.

No it's not, you can embrace culture without trivializing it and turning it into a joke. If you wanted to have a tequila party, why the need to incorporate Mexican sombreros? Is tequila somehow related to Mexican hats? Your attitude comes off as people should be thankful that someone would incorporate their culture into a party (even if it's inaccurate and ignorant).
You do realize that there is a bit more to mexican culture than a hat right?

I know a guy that uses an instrument from my culture in a band he formed, they even play classic tunes from my culture. However, they also made a parody video where they talk about the "origins" of the group and it was filled with stereotypical characters from another culture unrelated to my culture completely. That's offensive; I'm not going to scream at him and accuse him of intolerance or bigotry, but it's annoying that despite getting some things right, he gets most of it wrong. Knowing you, you would claim that I am too sensitive because I think someone dumbly associates my culture with another culture. It's no different than saying a Brit is French.
It's the epitome of "first world problem syndrome".

Not true. You're assuming everyone is non-Hispanic white and there are no students of Mexican descent on the campus.
I'm just assuming that most of them are so mentally infantile that this is a serious issue in their life.

And my Mexican friend feels the opposite, because we all know anecdotes that support my beliefs are the truth.

I get what your saying, why actually talk to people who were raised and spent most of their life in Mexico about this issue when we have the opinions of a bunch of American children to go on. It's not like the people I talked to have any idea about their own culture no.

You're right Summer, what was I thinking? They are only Mexicans what would they know about their own culture?
 
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TerranceL

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You think St Patrick's Day is representative of a normal day in Ireland? But I don't see the Irish chapters in many colleges getting up in arms about the green beer.
Next thing you'll try to get me to believe that the Irish aren't perpetually drunk.

YOU CANNOT PULL THE WOOL OVER MY EYES, SIR.
 
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keith99

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Next thing you'll try to get me to believe that the Irish aren't perpetually drunk.

YOU CANNOT PULL THE WOOL OVER MY EYES, SIR.

Not this part Irishman. But I did write one paper dead drunk. The Bowen Reaction Series did not make any sense sober, it did drunk.
 
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