Student booted from school after refusing to recite Pledge of Allegiance

[uberd00b]

I'm a little baffled by this.

Must you recite the pledge of allegiance in order to qualify for an education? Should that be so?

There's no such thing over here in the UK. The teachers would be rather embarrased to enforce it and the kids would just muck about through the entire thing. I would say good for them if they did. Who is anyone else to tell you who to swear allegiance to?

 

[JadeTigress]

Wow...I didn't know they did stuff like that. When I was in highschool, if someone didn't stand up and say the pledge the teacher would get on their ass about it, but they were never kicked out of class for not saying it.

 

[Yusuf Evans]

I wonder if she had given any reason other than religious, would they have let her come back? I could care less if someone stands up for the Pledge; it's just a bunch of words anyways. It's not what defines us as a nation, but our actions.

 

[cantata]

Most people in the UK would, as uberd00b says, consider a pledge of allegiance to the country a total joke.

Although there is an odd sort of patriotism in the UK, we just don't get our knickers in a twist about it as much as the US does - people know that as a nation we've done just as many stupid things as any other, and we don't really define ourselves by our Britishness. I love Britain, but whenever it does something obnoxious, you can bet I'll be complaining about it as loud as anyone. The fact that I like my country and I like living here doesn't make it immune to criticism as far as I'm concerned.

My allegiance is to the values which I perceive as being upheld in Britain, not to Britain itself. If those values change, so does my loyalty.

 

[trunks2k]

I'm pretty sure a public school cannot force you to recite the pledge of allegiance, regardless of the reason why you do not wish to do so. That is, provided you are not causing a disturbance during the recitation.

Personally, I stopped reciting the pledge early in high school. I didn't do it for religious reasons, but because I find something kinda creepy about having kids recite the pledge every day. At best it's just silly and useless, at worst it seems sorta brain-washy to me.

If you have to force the kids to say it, then it's pretty darn meaningless.

 

[wanderingone]

Until recently this nonsense had pretty much been settled with saying the pledge being optional, however schools could require such things as everyone stand regardless of if they say it or not.

Several states tried to pass mandatory pledge laws.. requiring all students to say the pledge unless they had religious objections. The ACLU was fighting these .. not sure if there ever was any decision in cases like the Colorado case a few years back.

So it may still be a state to state issue.

My daughter attends a rather left wing high school (private) and they laugh that the pledge.. a socialist invention is so pushed by so many, while in their school.. with quite a few socialist staff doesn't even consider using it.

I personally have objections to the linking of God to politics and nationalist pride building exercises so I refrain from the pledge myself.

 

[comana]

It's time the pledge be removed from our schools completely.

 

[uberd00b]

At best it's just silly and useless, at worst it seems sorta brain-washy to me.

Yeah that's what it would make me feel like, just a bunch of little robots chanting in time.

 

[Caitlin.ann]

How silly...I never said the pledge and I never got carted off.

 

[Autumnleaf]

If you won't pledge to your country why should your country give you a free education?

 

[comana]

If you won't pledge to your country why should your country give you a free education?

And you equate children reciting a pledge as loyalty and pride in one's country? If they refuse they should be denied public education?

I certainly do not need to, nor will I, recite the pledge as proof of my loyalty to my country.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Why should I pledge to a country that would require a pledge?

 

[keith99]

Until recently this nonsense had pretty much been settled with saying the pledge being optional, however schools could require such things as everyone stand regardless of if they say it or not.

Several states tried to pass mandatory pledge laws.. requiring all students to say the pledge unless they had religious objections. The ACLU was fighting these .. not sure if there ever was any decision in cases like the Colorado case a few years back.

So it may still be a state to state issue.

My daughter attends a rather left wing high school (private) and they laugh that the pledge.. a socialist invention is so pushed by so many, while in their school.. with quite a few socialist staff doesn't even consider using it.

I personally have objections to the linking of God to politics and nationalist pride building exercises so I refrain from the pledge myself.

How Do you get the idea this is a socialist invention?

 

[Caitlin.ann]

And you equate children reciting a pledge as loyalty and pride in one's country? If they refuse they should be denied public education?

I certainly do not need to, nor will I, recite the pledge as proof of my loyalty to my country.

Agreed, especially when I don't agree with the way the country is going and don't see any change taking place any time soon. I will be personally loyal to what the country was founded one which seems to have been lost, but I will not pledge loyalty to something that has drifted so far away from what it promised to be in the beginning, to the ideals it was founded upon. I think my pledges are better spent elsewhere and I will instead honor the memory of what America began as.

 

[keith99]

I found the title of this thread (Not the posters fault, it is the title of the cited piece) misleading to the point of being a lie. The girl in question was not booted from school. Instead she was transfered to night classes where the pledge was not said. If it wasn't for the fact that this can easily be viewed as punitive it would even make sense. The same arguments used for banning officially lead prayer about students who do not participate being singled out still fits.

Wrong action still, but not nearly as wrong as the title makes it sound.

 

[wanderingone]

How Do you get the idea this is a socialist invention?

How do you have the idea that it is not? The pledge originally appeared courtesy of a socialist minister (sans the under God stuff) in a youth magazine. It is an example of nationalist forms of socialism - meant to create a specific type of a patriotic culture. If I remember correctly the magazine itself held the copyright although it was created by the individual, and the under God stuff was added... in the 50's(?)

 

[wanderingone]

If you won't pledge to your country why should your country give you a free education?

Ummm.. because it's the people who pay for education...-- nobody is giving our kids a free education- and people shouldn't be forced to pay for the privilige of being non thinking robots.

 

[Trevorocity]

Rediculous if true. I don't see any compelling reason to force someone to pledge allegiance to the flag. You pledge allegiance out of your own sense of duty, by your own free-will and with full knowlege that you are in fact swearing an oath. Otherwise your pledge is disingenuous and that makes you a hypocrite.

In my younger years we had a student in our class who's religious beliefs prohibited him from swearing an oath. He still rose during the pledge out of respect for the others but he did not say the pledge. I wouldn't characterize him as unpatriotic in any sense of the word. And actually we were the ones who were just going through the motions, doing what we were told just because.

 

[keith99]

How do you have the idea that it is not? The pledge originally appeared courtesy of a socialist minister (sans the under God stuff) in a youth magazine. It is an example of nationalist forms of socialism - meant to create a specific type of a patriotic culture. If I remember correctly the magazine itself held the copyright although it was created by the individual, and the under God stuff was added... in the 50's(?)

Ah minister as Baptist Minister. Very different version of socialism than I was thinking of. I stand corrected.

Looking this up, just Wiki, it seems the pledge was very different before WW II. Starting with hand over heart and then with the words 'to the flag' the arm extended toward the flag. Hmm anyone see why it was changed and how this points to some dangers of rote recitation?

Personally I have problems with the daily recitation part. Perhaps I'm a closet Amish or Quaker. I feel my word once given is given, it need not be renewed or said again and requiring excessive recitation borders on an insult. Once a year seems quite enough to me.

Though as oaths go I rather prefer the Military oath, to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

 

[clarksided]

I never said the pledge in high school, and no one did anything to me. I just talked to my friends and half-heartedly put my hand on my chest somewhere.