Stuck - end it or build upon it?

[that0neguy]

Hi all,

Let me preface - I'm 24 and out of college working for a public accounting firm. I travel about 15-20% of the time. The girl I'm dating is also an accounting major and used to work at my firm. We starting dating about 1 year after she left (1 month ago). We've been talking and I'm unsure how to move forward. I don't know whether I should continue dating her and build upon and work through some things or end it.

Background:

I really care about this girl, we both have had sex with others but have not succumbed (sp?) to temptation together. I feel we are on the right path sexually. We don't allow ourselves in those situations. We both come from strong Christian families and love God. We are planning on starting a weekly couples devotional next week when she's gets back from her work trip. However, a few things concern me (detailed below) which including lying early in the relationship, potential immaturity to handle arguments, and her communication of doubts that our relationship won't work out. I think the best thing to do is pray and discuss with her when she returns with my mind not on one side of the fence, but open to both possibilities. I would however like to get some suggestions.

My faults: I have come off as insensitive, potentially cruel based on how I stood my ground on certain subjects. I think this may have worried her about communicating with me completely early on and may finally be reversing. I also came off as not very open when we first met (I was very guarded). I would joke but not really open up emotionally and this concerned her as well. I think these actions may have spurred her actions below.

My concerns about her:

I have some other concerns though. She seems worried about my travel (she stated she broke up her last relationship because of distance.) We both currently live with our parents (about 45 mins apart), and she wants me to move closer or she will move closer to me. She says she really likes me and needs to see me more (we see eachother 1 night a week and Friday/Saturday usually). I agree with her, I want to see her more, but her words have me believing she cannot handle the distance factor (could this cause issues in the future)?

Additionally she has done some initial things that worry me. We have gotten off to a bit of a rough start, we have gotten in a few arguments trying to get to know each other. She hung up the phone on me when I was trying to have an adult conversation about keeping some of our topics between us. She said I sounded like her father. I made her cry and we worked through it, understanding what I can do and she can do to continue to communicate better and handle arguments better (be more open). She stated she didn't want to cry on the phone with me, I said I needed to talk on the phone to understand her tone and how she's feeling. I was off put by her hanging up though.

Another thing that makes me worried is during that phone fight she said she had doubts about us. She didn't think that maybe I could handle her extreme sensitivity. She thought sometimes I could be sweet and other times I could be cruel (which I was sort of - I wanted to stand my ground about her hanging up on my, I don't want to be walked over). I wanted to set a tone early that I stand up for what I believe is right and may have come off insensitive when really I believe I am a very sensitive person, I do believe we understand each other now, and I don't have to be so stubborn in my stances, and can move towards comforting her. The thing that had me worried here again though is that she doubted our relationship so soon in, I don't know if her heart is guarded or if she isn't ready to commit. She was in a 4-year relationship literally only 3 months before we started dating. I was about to be engaged after a 2.5 year relationship in December and we broke it off too though due to disagreeing beliefs that we never discussed prior unfortunately.

Finally, this week she's out of town for work (she doesn't travel much) this week and one of her friends just got out of an engagement and is really sad about being alone. Well tonight she told me she was going to bed but I called her out (not mad at all) that she was going to be this girl's wingwoman at the bars tonight. She didn't deny and admitted to it. I don't know if she was concerned I'd get upset that she was going to the bars to console her gf or what, (I really don't think she'd ever think of cheating based on what I know), but I was disappointed in her lying about it. I didn't make a big deal about it at all, I just told her she doesn't have to hide things from me, I won't get jealous about her going out (saying basically I trust her). I think she appreciated it, but I'm concerned why she wasn't up front.

 

[LinkH]

I think it's a good thing that you are rationally thinking through the whole issue. If you are a Christian and you are going to date, the point should be to find a spouse. If find out she isn't going to be your wife, you should let her down as easy as you can.

As far as not being too confident in the relationship goes, how long have you been together anyway? If I were you, I wouldn't encourage her to be too confident in the relationship yet. Why should you if you are only dating? When it's time to get engaged, that's the time you need to be sure about the relationship. Until then, you don't have a covenant. If by her not being confident in the relationship, she is thinking of calling it quits out of fear, that could be a problem. If she fears you'll break up with her, that's a problem, but of a different sort.

If she's afraid things won't work out long-term, you need to get a sense of how committed she will be to marriage. That's a good idea even if she isn't showing this kind of fear. We live in a society where the average person, maybe the average church-going person, has loose moral thinking when it comes to marriage. You could tell her you two are only dating. The purpose of dating should not be entertainment or to have someone to go with, but to find a partner for marriage. Then talk about commitment in marriage. Don't be afraid to pull the Bible out, read it, and study it in depth. If she is looking for a man of God to be her husband, she will appreciate that. When you are married, you want to feel comfortable discussing the scriptures. Talk about Matthew 19 on divorce and remarriage, I Corinthians 7. That passage touches on the divorce issue and also sexual responsibilities of one partner to another. You could ask her if one person really wanted to be physically intimate, but the other would rather not, what should you do (in marriage of course.) Talk about all these things. Some of them are better not to be talked about when you two are alone in a dark place though.

Before opening the Bible, you could bounce some story off of her that you heard from a friend or read about on online about a woman who feels unhappy in her marriage, that she and her husband have grown apart, that she will never find true happiness unless she divorces, and then discuss that. Talk about divorce over issues like porn, etc. Try to gague how committed she is to marriage. If she's not committed, study the Bible together and persuade her otherwise. If she has the attitude that you can just get a divorce if you feel like it, let her go. If she's committed to marriage, you could tell her when you know that you want to marry a woman, and you get down on one knee and you ask her father for her hand, you do that to make a commitment for life.

The point is to get her thinking in terms of marriage being a life-long commitment. Whether 'the relationship' is going to last should be up in the air. If you both decide it's going to last, then that's when you get married, and you both stay committed and faithful to one another which makes it last. You can try to get a feel for how ready she feels for getting married, in general.

When you talk about this stuff, be very careful how you word things. Instead of talking about 'us getting married' you can talk about 'when you marry your husband' and keep it third person, not about you. Of course she knows you are asking because you are considering her. That's enough to cause more emotional investment and more heartbreak if you aren't careful. Try not to compound it by talking about 'if we get married' unless you are really close to it and know enough to make up your mind.

Once a week would have been too long a time for me to wait when I was dating my wife. I took her out for dinner about seven times a week. We went to church events together and other things throughout the week. I'd drop her off at her boarding house at night, and it was hard to say goodbye. But it can take a while to get there, and sometimes life's situations don't allow you to live close. I did go through several weeks where she was gone on a trip right before I proposed.

Other things you will want to talk out are your views about the husband and wife's role. I believe in wives submitting to husbands, and husbands loving their wives as Christ loved the church. I did talk about this and we agreed on it. But we didn't really think of what that would mean in our marrige later. These are some things you could discuss. You could think of scenarios, disagreements about how to spend money, or whatever, and discuss who should make the decision. How do the teachings on the respecting her husband apply to what tone of voice she should use with her husband, nagging until she gets her way. Read some discussions on the Internet to come up with questions or scenarios to discuss. How does a man's responsibility to love his wife apply to how he talks to her and treats her?

She said you sounded like her father on the phone. If I were you, I might have asked her if she would have hung up on her father. It's good to get to know her folks. If you do propose, that makes it easier down the road, hopefully. You can also see how she interacts with her father, a current male authority figure in her life. That may tell you something about how she would treat you as her husband. If she's disrespectful to the man who raised her, would she treat you any better? If she is respectful to her dad and has a good relationship with him, that could be a good sign.

Find out what she expects in terms of having children, whether she wants to spend some time at home. Is some kind of accounting practice that you could both work on (her helping you when she's not busy with the kids) a possiblity? That's something to think about, not something to phrase as 'when we get married' and then it never happens. If she doesn't want to have kids, and you do, or she wants to have kids, but wants to work 80 hour weeks, or wants you to be Mr. Mom, that should come out in the conversations.

You'll have to show some leadership early in the marriage, too. It's not really set by discussing the issue theoretically early on.

As far as being firm with her goes, you'll have to learn to do that in a way that doesn't seem too 'cruel' to her, but where you can still stand up to her. A soft tone of voice often helps.

When I was dating my wife, I kept praying about whether I should marry her, and I believed the Lord was directing me to. Keep it a matter of constant prayer.

 

[that0neguy]

I think it's a good thing that you are rationally thinking through the whole issue. If you are a Christian and you are going to date, the point should be to find a spouse. If find out she isn't going to be your wife, you should let her down as easy as you can.

As far as not being too confident in the relationship goes, how long have you been together anyway? If I were you, I wouldn't encourage her to be too confident in the relationship yet. Why should you if you are only dating? When it's time to get engaged, that's the time you need to be sure about the relationship. Until then, you don't have a covenant. If by her not being confident in the relationship, she is thinking of calling it quits out of fear, that could be a problem. If she fears you'll break up with her, that's a problem, but of a different sort.

If she's afraid things won't work out long-term, you need to get a sense of how committed she will be to marriage. That's a good idea even if she isn't showing this kind of fear. We live in a society where the average person, maybe the average church-going person, has loose moral thinking when it comes to marriage. You could tell her you two are only dating. The purpose of dating should not be entertainment or to have someone to go with, but to find a partner for marriage. Then talk about commitment in marriage. Don't be afraid to pull the Bible out, read it, and study it in depth. If she is looking for a man of God to be her husband, she will appreciate that. When you are married, you want to feel comfortable discussing the scriptures. Talk about Matthew 19 on divorce and remarriage, I Corinthians 7. That passage touches on the divorce issue and also sexual responsibilities of one partner to another. You could ask her if one person really wanted to be physically intimate, but the other would rather not, what should you do (in marriage of course.) Talk about all these things. Some of them are better not to be talked about when you two are alone in a dark place though.

Before opening the Bible, you could bounce some story off of her that you heard from a friend or read about on online about a woman who feels unhappy in her marriage, that she and her husband have grown apart, that she will never find true happiness unless she divorces, and then discuss that. Talk about divorce over issues like porn, etc. Try to gague how committed she is to marriage. If she's not committed, study the Bible together and persuade her otherwise. If she has the attitude that you can just get a divorce if you feel like it, let her go. If she's committed to marriage, you could tell her when you know that you want to marry a woman, and you get down on one knee and you ask her father for her hand, you do that to make a commitment for life.

The point is to get her thinking in terms of marriage being a life-long commitment. Whether 'the relationship' is going to last should be up in the air. If you both decide it's going to last, then that's when you get married, and you both stay committed and faithful to one another which makes it last. You can try to get a feel for how ready she feels for getting married, in general.

When you talk about this stuff, be very careful how you word things. Instead of talking about 'us getting married' you can talk about 'when you marry your husband' and keep it third person, not about you. Of course she knows you are asking because you are considering her. That's enough to cause more emotional investment and more heartbreak if you aren't careful. Try not to compound it by talking about 'if we get married' unless you are really close to it and know enough to make up your mind.

Once a week would have been too long a time for me to wait when I was dating my wife. I took her out for dinner about seven times a week. We went to church events together and other things throughout the week. I'd drop her off at her boarding house at night, and it was hard to say goodbye. But it can take a while to get there, and sometimes life's situations don't allow you to live close. I did go through several weeks where she was gone on a trip right before I proposed.

Other things you will want to talk out are your views about the husband and wife's role. I believe in wives submitting to husbands, and husbands loving their wives as Christ loved the church. I did talk about this and we agreed on it. But we didn't really think of what that would mean in our marrige later. These are some things you could discuss. You could think of scenarios, disagreements about how to spend money, or whatever, and discuss who should make the decision. How do the teachings on the respecting her husband apply to what tone of voice she should use with her husband, nagging until she gets her way. Read some discussions on the Internet to come up with questions or scenarios to discuss. How does a man's responsibility to love his wife apply to how he talks to her and treats her?

She said you sounded like her father on the phone. If I were you, I might have asked her if she would have hung up on her father. It's good to get to know her folks. If you do propose, that makes it easier down the road, hopefully. You can also see how she interacts with her father, a current male authority figure in her life. That may tell you something about how she would treat you as her husband. If she's disrespectful to the man who raised her, would she treat you any better? If she is respectful to her dad and has a good relationship with him, that could be a good sign.

Find out what she expects in terms of having children, whether she wants to spend some time at home. Is some kind of accounting practice that you could both work on (her helping you when she's not busy with the kids) a possiblity? That's something to think about, not something to phrase as 'when we get married' and then it never happens. If she doesn't want to have kids, and you do, or she wants to have kids, but wants to work 80 hour weeks, or wants you to be Mr. Mom, that should come out in the conversations.

You'll have to show some leadership early in the marriage, too. It's not really set by discussing the issue theoretically early on.

As far as being firm with her goes, you'll have to learn to do that in a way that doesn't seem too 'cruel' to her, but where you can still stand up to her. A soft tone of voice often helps.

When I was dating my wife, I kept praying about whether I should marry her, and I believed the Lord was directing me to. Keep it a matter of constant prayer.

I am very grateful for the thoroughness of your post. As we move forward I will begin to bring up those scenarios and ask those questions, starting with the marriage question first. I think these will help me get to understand her better and I really feel my last relationship ended because I didn't ask these questions until I was about to propose. I guess it's ok to continue dating with some slight doubts about whether she could be a potential spouse as long as you are learning about her and her views on the Boble's teachings and continue to grow and find out if you're right for each other as long as you're not staying stagnant and living outside God's will?

 

[4christ88]

Hey there

I'm going to talk from my personal experience, and it's cool that we're the same age, so maybe some of what I will say will help you in some way on another, i pray it does.

I grew up in a Christian home, one in which I have always received sound, biblical advice from both parents concerning purity, dating, courting, and marriage. It helped that my dad had been a marriage counsellor for many years. Also, growing up as a teen, I had a curious but intelligent mind. I observed the lives of girls around me, and opened my ears wide when guys talked about girls and their escapades/ victories with girls and so on.

Anyways, point I am trying to make is that growing up, I listened to stories of people my age and also listened when grown ups were talking about their marital lives and so on. So I never wanted to date for dating sake. What's the point of dating to break up. It is only earlier this year, for the first time I found myself with a guy and we love each other and we are both praying about our relationship...with marriage in mind.

Back to your story: I think first of all, both of you started the relationship too soon after you broke up from your respective serious and Long-term relationships. You were even considering proposing to your ex. If you think about it that way, do you think that it affected your relationship anyhow.

Many times, people are hurting so much and they've been with this person for so long, there is a big empty void and they usually seek to fill it (unconsciously perhaps). Also, if the girl is having doubts of just a relationship...without even the whole other level of considering marriage..then I don't think it's worth pursuing and spending any more time in a relationship that does not seem to go anywhere. Her having doubts means she will not put as much effort as you seem to in this relationship.

Also, read 1 Cor 13. I've helped post it below my reply. Her hanging up on you is a sign of immaturity and lack of respect. Also, I think it is a warning sign when a girl compares her boyfriend to her father. Seems like she is still emotionally attached to her father in a way that will come between you two and you may not have a mature relationship with her (at least on her part). All the resentment she feels for her father (maybe her father is also strict on some issues and doesn't compromise), so she will transfer it to you when you don't allow her to get her way. Bible says that Love does not insist on its own way. I think same thing goes for you...but if you're making on stand on biblical and moral principles, then you have my support and I'm proud of you. The girl on the other hand makes me a bit worried....

Seriously pray about your relationship with her and ask God to reveal who the girl is and help you to understand her better. A lot of what LinkH said is so true and I don't think I have much more than that to add

1 Corinthians 13 (New International Version)

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1 Corinthians 13
New International Version (NIV)
13 If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

 

[LinkH]

I am very grateful for the thoroughness of your post. As we move forward I will begin to bring up those scenarios and ask those questions, starting with the marriage question first. I think these will help me get to understand her better and I really feel my last relationship ended because I didn't ask these questions until I was about to propose. I guess it's ok to continue dating with some slight doubts about whether she could be a potential spouse as long as you are learning about her and her views on the Boble's teachings and continue to grow and find out if you're right for each other as long as you're not staying stagnant and living outside God's will?

If you are just getting to know each other, unless God has spoken on the issue, it seems unreasonable to feel sure you will end up together.

I wish there were more teaching for young people from churches on husband/wife selection. You just get thrown out into the deep end of the pool without knowing what to do. If we learn about dating from peers and TV, there is no rhyme or reason to it, except to have fun and fulfill emotional needs. If you are going to date or court, it makes sense to use the time to figure out if you will be a good husband for her and if she'll be a good wife for you.

The modern concept of the boyfriend and girlfriend is probably about 120 years old. You date someone to fulfill the emotional need to have an SO without getting married. In many cases, it's a full-blown sexual relationship. Little emphasis is paid on evaluating each other for marriage. And you are expected to be faithful to that person by not dating anyone else. I don't find this idea in the Bible. It's something relatively new in our culture. The previous stage in our culture involved men visiting women at their parent's house and going on outings with a chaperone. A woman might have more than one gentleman caller. Jane Austen and Charles Dickens novels and movies made about them portray this. (I can't think of American examples.) A man might propose, and with the family the girl would choose whether or not to accept. I suppose the stage in history before that involved the father making the decisions.

So, yes, I don't think you need to be sure about the relationship at the start. And if you are and she is, that's probably a good time to think about proposing.

 

[4christ88]

If you are just getting to know each other, unless God has spoken on the issue, it seems unreasonable to feel sure you will end up together.

I wish there were more teaching for young people from churches on husband/wife selection. You just get thrown out into the deep end of the pool without knowing what to do. If we learn about dating from peers and TV, there is no rhyme or reason to it, except to have fun and fulfill emotional needs. If you are going to date or court, it makes sense to use the time to figure out if you will be a good husband for her and if she'll be a good wife for you.

The modern concept of the boyfriend and girlfriend is probably about 120 years old. You date someone to fulfill the emotional need to have an SO without getting married. In many cases, it's a full-blown sexual relationship. Little emphasis is paid on evaluating each other for marriage. And you are expected to be faithful to that person by not dating anyone else. I don't find this idea in the Bible. It's something relatively new in our culture. The previous stage in our culture involved men visiting women at their parent's house and going on outings with a chaperone. A woman might have more than one gentleman caller. Jane Austen and Charles Dickens novels and movies made about them portray this. (I can't think of American examples.) A man might propose, and with the family the girl would choose whether or not to accept. I suppose the stage in history before that involved the father making the decisions.

So, yes, I don't think you need to be sure about the relationship at the start. And if you are and she is, that's probably a good time to think about proposing.

yea, LinkH I really agree with you, there's not much material to help us younger ones, those of us who are at the age of being capable of mature relationships to guide us in making the right choices.

Even now, I'm still trying my best and trusting the Lord to guide me in this relationship I'm in. The guy and I don't seem to be on same spiritual level, like he just accepted Christ last year and I dunno, I'm thinking if the guy is to be head of the family...there's a lot of things he still needs to learn because I want to raise a family that will fear God and children to grow up in the knowledge, fear and love of God u know?

I ve been told I am old soul, and I really think I have a lot to learn from the way things were done in older generations. Also, you know how in the Bible it says that heaven and earth will pass away, but his Word will never pass away. We, the younger generation should not use culture and popular trend as poor excuses to neglect the teachings/purity/righteous standard of God. The books of Jane Austen really appealed to me and I've tried to model myself and preserve some virtuous lady qualities, though my culture doesn't seem to appreciate it and people often scoff at and ridicule my abstaining from a lot of lifestyle choices.

I honestly think the guy who started this thread...it sounds like they started off looking for an emotional need/void to fill...to help them get over the loss of their previous serious relationship...though I'm sure it's not a conscious effort. I think the distance factor actually can help you see things more clearly and you'll have space to think things through in terms of the direction you want the relationship can go and whether the girl's actions are a sign for you to go on or not.

cheers