Struggling with Biblical Basis to Pray for Salvation in Others

[tryintogrow]

I am a very strong and faith-filled Christian. However, I came to Jesus at age 17 after a pretty rough childhood. My siblings and I dabbled in New Age/witchcraft in our teens. I grew out of it, they didn't, and now I clearly see the results of disaster in their adult lives. They are divorced, mentally unstable, not financially successful, etc. They know I'm a Christian but they have no interest in listening. One is even so far gone in satanism that he claims to have all the spiritual power he needs.

People tell me to pray for their salvation. After nearly 30 years of watching them flounder, though, I admit I'm not expecting much. I know all the usual verses people mention for prayer. I know God desires for all to be saved. I know Jesus tells us to pray for our enemies, and Paul said he prayed for Israel so that "perhaps" the Jews would convert. Peter made a similar comment to Simon the Sorcerer, ie pray and repent so that perhaps God would forgive.

Jesus tells us no one comes to Him unless the Father draws them. He called the Pharisees "children of the devil" and concluded that they would never hear Him. We have no record that Herod nor Pilate nor Gamaliel nor Caiaphas ever repented, even though Peter was filled with the Holy Spirit preaching to the Sanhedrin at his trial.

Acts gives us no mention of the early saints praying for Paul to convert, and prayers are given no particular credit for his conversion. In fact, God told Ananias to go find Paul and restore his eyesight because God had chosen Paul -- not because of prayers.

Jesus certainly asked for forgiveness for those who crucified Him, but it's unclear exactly which group of people He meant (Rome? Israel? the whole world?), and we don't know if this forgiveness plea brought personal salvation or simply prevented apocalyptic wrath.

Finally, when Jesus sent out the 70 to preach, He told them that not everyone would believe them, and they were instructed to shake off the dust to move on. Acts even tells us in several places that the Holy Spirit forbade the apostles from going to certain cities.

In today's times, there are so many people who pray decades for a loved one's salvation yet never see results. How many calls to prayer have we seen for Katy Perry, Miley Cyrus, etc, while these people carry on being godless?

I'm not a Calvinist, and I'm not here to peddle any fatalistic doctrine.

I just feel pretty demoralized, and I cannot find Scripture to speak toward this. My heart breaks for my family. I've cried and prayed many times. I'd do anything to get my siblings delivered. But I don't want to spend more hours in agonizing intercession for no results.

Is there something in Scripture I'm missing? Please don't tell me to pray for them anyway because I just should. I need a supernatural revelation on this topic.

Thanks for any and all help.

 

[rockytopva]

I was basically Spirit filled after a summer of Pentecostal revival. But no one in my family was saved. I prayed for them and left it it the Lords hands.


My sister was a waitress about 5 years later and a youth minister would come to her restaurant at 5AM and have portfolios of study laid out before him as he would prepare for the next meeting. They would rent campgrounds for the weekend where he would have special speakers and everyone would enjoy love feast. When my sisters went to visit they cried the whole time as they were overwhelmed with the amount of love in the place. Here is a sermon my mother sent of him back in the 1990's. Typical Dale Bambrick sermon filled with unction and conviction. The sermon is dear to me as I remember the impact he had on that church and on my family, who would all come to Christ.

The whole family would end up coming to Christ. My advice is simply to pray and live the life before them. Even though they may not say anything they are taking notice.

 

[rockytopva]

I believe that this salvation thing is for the whole house!

25 And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.
26 And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.
27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.
28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. - Acts 16

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

I am a very strong and faith-filled Christian. However, I came to Jesus at age 17 after a pretty rough childhood. My siblings and I dabbled in New Age/witchcraft in our teens. I grew out of it, they didn't, and now I clearly see the results of disaster in their adult lives. They are divorced, mentally unstable, not financially successful, etc. They know I'm a Christian but they have no interest in listening. One is even so far gone in satanism that he claims to have all the spiritual power he needs.

People tell me to pray for their salvation. After nearly 30 years of watching them flounder, though, I admit I'm not expecting much. I know all the usual verses people mention for prayer. I know God desires for all to be saved. I know Jesus tells us to pray for our enemies, and Paul said he prayed for Israel so that "perhaps" the Jews would convert. Peter made a similar comment to Simon the Sorcerer, ie pray and repent so that perhaps God would forgive.

Jesus tells us no one comes to Him unless the Father draws them. He called the Pharisees "children of the devil" and concluded that they would never hear Him. We have no record that Herod nor Pilate nor Gamaliel nor Caiaphas ever repented, even though Peter was filled with the Holy Spirit preaching to the Sanhedrin at his trial.

Acts gives us no mention of the early saints praying for Paul to convert, and prayers are given no particular credit for his conversion. In fact, God told Ananias to go find Paul and restore his eyesight because God had chosen Paul -- not because of prayers.

Jesus certainly asked for forgiveness for those who crucified Him, but it's unclear exactly which group of people He meant (Rome? Israel? the whole world?), and we don't know if this forgiveness plea brought personal salvation or simply prevented apocalyptic wrath.

Finally, when Jesus sent out the 70 to preach, He told them that not everyone would believe them, and they were instructed to shake off the dust to move on. Acts even tells us in several places that the Holy Spirit forbade the apostles from going to certain cities.

In today's times, there are so many people who pray decades for a loved one's salvation yet never see results. How many calls to prayer have we seen for Katy Perry, Miley Cyrus, etc, while these people carry on being godless?

I'm not a Calvinist, and I'm not here to peddle any fatalistic doctrine.

I just feel pretty demoralized, and I cannot find Scripture to speak toward this. My heart breaks for my family. I've cried and prayed many times. I'd do anything to get my siblings delivered. But I don't want to spend more hours in agonizing intercession for no results.

Is there something in Scripture I'm missing? Please don't tell me to pray for them anyway because I just should. I need a supernatural revelation on this topic.

Thanks for any and all help.

Well 2 things.


1. The bible mentions a reprobate mind you can read examples in the Ot but also in Romans 1:16-28 or so ...and I believe certain celebrities maybe have reached that stage, where God stops speaking to them and they have ignored his warnings enough times.


2. The bible in the NT mentions that it is possible to backslide though and lose your salvation.

1 Timothy 4:1

“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;”


Additionally a follower of Paul left as well. Interesting enough in colossians I believe chapter 3 there is a list of names Paul acknowledges, and the name of this follower is the only one Paul mentions where he doesn't add "he was a great help" or add some acknowledgement to, I believe it's possible becuase of this choice to turn to the world.


2 Timothy 4:10King James Version (KJV)
10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.


In the end we need to pray for others to be saved becuase as we see...people turn away.

 

[paul1149]

Very briefly, I'll tell you what I believe. God draws everyone. He has left a witness to Himself for all to see, now it's up to each one to respond. Every person has some Light in them which illuminates their need of God. This is why each person is accountable for their choices. This is part of Common Grace. See Rom 1.

People get caught in various traps in life. What's holding your loved ones I don't know, but you can pray that the strongholds are broken. Rather than, or at least in addition to, crying out to God, you can try taking authority over those strongholds, as per 2Cor 10 and Eph 6. God is already on your side, so it may be appropriate to speak to the mountain.

 

[Halbhh]

I believe that this salvation thing is for the whole house!

25 And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.
26 And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.
27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.
28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. - Acts 16

I'd read that of course, but I didn't remember that "and thy house", which is very interesting. Notice still that the whole wording is "believe...and thou shalt be saved", so it's still not saying as best I can see at the moment that others are carried with you regardless of whether they believe, but it does seem to suggest, just like studies show also, that what the father of a household believes often will strongly influence the members of the family. We also may remember highly suggestive passages in the Old Testament, like some I read recently in Ezekiel, where by implication, there might (?) be a carrying along effect if the level of sin is low (?).... Well, it's still a new thing to me, but it would seem personal faith is required at least.

Ezek ch 14 (the people having been very sinful )--

12 The word of the Lord came to me: 13 “Son of man, if a country sins against me by being unfaithful and I stretch out my hand against it to cut off its food supply and send famine upon it and kill its people and their animals, 14 even if these three men—Noah, Daniel and Job—were in it, they could save only themselves by their righteousness, declares the Sovereign Lord.

15 “Or if I send wild beasts through that country and they leave it childless and it becomes desolate so that no one can pass through it because of the beasts, 16 as surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, even if these three men were in it, they could not save their own sons or daughters. They alone would be saved, but the land would be desolate.

17 “Or if I bring a sword against that country and say, ‘Let the sword pass throughout the land,’ and I kill its people and their animals, 18 as surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, even if these three men were in it, they could not save their own sons or daughters. They alone would be saved."

 

[Halbhh]

I am a very strong and faith-filled Christian. However, I came to Jesus at age 17 after a pretty rough childhood. My siblings and I dabbled in New Age/witchcraft in our teens. I grew out of it, they didn't, and now I clearly see the results of disaster in their adult lives. They are divorced, mentally unstable, not financially successful, etc. They know I'm a Christian but they have no interest in listening. One is even so far gone in satanism that he claims to have all the spiritual power he needs.

People tell me to pray for their salvation. After nearly 30 years of watching them flounder, though, I admit I'm not expecting much. I know all the usual verses people mention for prayer. I know God desires for all to be saved. I know Jesus tells us to pray for our enemies, and Paul said he prayed for Israel so that "perhaps" the Jews would convert. Peter made a similar comment to Simon the Sorcerer, ie pray and repent so that perhaps God would forgive.

Jesus tells us no one comes to Him unless the Father draws them. He called the Pharisees "children of the devil" and concluded that they would never hear Him. We have no record that Herod nor Pilate nor Gamaliel nor Caiaphas ever repented, even though Peter was filled with the Holy Spirit preaching to the Sanhedrin at his trial.

Acts gives us no mention of the early saints praying for Paul to convert, and prayers are given no particular credit for his conversion. In fact, God told Ananias to go find Paul and restore his eyesight because God had chosen Paul -- not because of prayers.

Jesus certainly asked for forgiveness for those who crucified Him, but it's unclear exactly which group of people He meant (Rome? Israel? the whole world?), and we don't know if this forgiveness plea brought personal salvation or simply prevented apocalyptic wrath.

Finally, when Jesus sent out the 70 to preach, He told them that not everyone would believe them, and they were instructed to shake off the dust to move on. Acts even tells us in several places that the Holy Spirit forbade the apostles from going to certain cities.

In today's times, there are so many people who pray decades for a loved one's salvation yet never see results. How many calls to prayer have we seen for Katy Perry, Miley Cyrus, etc, while these people carry on being godless?

I'm not a Calvinist, and I'm not here to peddle any fatalistic doctrine.

I just feel pretty demoralized, and I cannot find Scripture to speak toward this. My heart breaks for my family. I've cried and prayed many times. I'd do anything to get my siblings delivered. But I don't want to spend more hours in agonizing intercession for no results.

Is there something in Scripture I'm missing? Please don't tell me to pray for them anyway because I just should. I need a supernatural revelation on this topic.

Thanks for any and all help.

I don't think I have the full answer necessarily, but I often will pray that a person see through their own illusions, or be pulled by the spirit. I don't think I can pray to make them believe exactly, but I could pray to give them another chance, for instance. Possibly, when I know the person well, I might even have a sense of what blocks someone, and could specifically target that illusion to try to undo it such as by for example a time of relief from the original pain, wound, that supports the illusion, that in that space of relief they might be able to see what they are blind to. I try to be sure I am praying for something I believe is in accord with God's will and then I can believe as I pray the prayer will be given, as Christ said is the way we should pray. That belief during prayer He said for us to do.

 

[tryintogrow]

Thank you all for the answers! Instead of handling this through fear and doubt, I need to seek His voice in a more constructive way.