Struggles with Calvinism

[His student]

i read somewhere Calvin himself didnt even believe Calvinism which I thought quite interesting.

Quite.

Calvin would role over in his grave if he saw what so called 5-pointers have libeled him with - particularly with so called "limited atonement" which he taught against for most of his life.

In fact Calvin would highly nuance all of the 4 points as well before he would sign off on them.

As would I by the way.

One of the reasons I don't want to self identify as a Calvinist even though we have many doctrines in common.

 

[Tra Phull]

I almost PMed you last night about NO TRUE SCOTSMAN phrase, Butch, we are thinking alike.

 

[Dave L]

Quite.

Calvin would role over in his grave if he saw what so called 5-pointers have libeled him with - particularly with so called "limited atonement" which he taught against for most of his life.

In fact Calvin would highly nuance all of the 4 points as well before he would sign off on them.

As would I by the way.

One of the reasons I don't want to self identify as a Calvinist even though we have many doctrines in common.

I know Calvin taught universal atonement. And that affected points 4 & 5. So as a Calvinist I think 1,2,& 3 are biblically sound. But 4 & 5 need some work to make them square with point 3.

 

[Tra Phull]

Hoo-wah !!!

Calvinists be PUTTIN' ON A CLINIC of logical fallacies!

As expected, as always.

 

[Dave L]

Hoo-wah !!!

Calvinists be PUTTIN' ON A CLINIC of logical fallacies!

As expected, as always.

Have you considered how much people hate God if Calvin was right?

 

[Tra Phull]

Change the goalposts!

Change the TULIP POINTS!

They weren't formulated til early 1900's anyhow.

Another Double Reverse in the Double Predestination of Calvinistic Double Speak!

Behold, and see.

 

[Dave L]

Change the goalposts!

Change the TULIP POINTS!

They weren't formulated til early 1900's anyhow.

Another Double Reverse in the Double Predestination of Calvinistic Double Speak!

Behold, and see.

Just sayin' lots of people who think they worship God hate the God of the bible if Calvin was right about sin and grace.

 

[Tra Phull]

Why would I consider that, when Calvin WASN'T RIGHT, Dave?

I don't go around doing WHAT IF' s about erroneous premises.

 

[Dave L]

Why would I consider that, when Calvin WASN'T RIGHT, Dave?

I don't go around doing WHAT IF' s about erroneous premises.

What if he was?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What if he was?

Same test for everyone/ every message - if someone is right, it must be proven/ verified

by Scripture, in line with Scripture and God's Plan and God's Purpose,
and
in Harmony (no contradiction) with any Scripture.

Today, it doesn't look like those conditions are met at all, not even close.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Just sayin' lots of people who think they worship God hate the God of the bible if Calvin was right about sin and grace.

They do that if Calvin was wrong also. It is not at all dependent on him.

 

[Dave L]

They do that if Calvin was wrong also. It is not at all dependent on him.

But what if he was right? Where does that place you for eternity?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Have you considered how much people hate God if Calvin was right?

Again, no need to consider Calvin's views -

Instead, and Always trust and rely on the Father in heaven ,

and all Scripture shows how much (except the remnant God has for Himself, for His Own Testimony)

the whole world of mankind/ society/ worships demons and rejects the Father and hates Jesus.

 

[Dave L]

Same test for everyone/ every message - if someone is right, it must be proven/ verified

by Scripture, in line with Scripture and God's Plan and God's Purpose,
and
in Harmony (no contradiction) with any Scripture.

Today, it doesn't look like those conditions are met at all, not even close.

It's important enough to spend a lifetime studying the issue.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

But what if he was right? Where does that place you for eternity?

In Jesus. The things he says that are wrong though - that prevents a lot of fellowship.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

It's important enough to spend a lifetime studying the issue.

No. Scripture says not to set such things before our eyes. They should not take up any of our time once it has been exposed, as it was.

 

[Dave L]

Again, no need to consider Calvin's views -

Instead, and Always trust and rely on the Father in heaven ,

and all Scripture shows how much (except the remnant God has for Himself, for His Own Testimony)

the whole world of mankind/ society/ worships demons and rejects the Father and hates Jesus.

But many who hate Calvin's description of God boast the same.

 

[Dave L]

No. Scripture says not to set such things before our eyes. They should not take up any of our time once it has been exposed, as it was.

I don't take it so lightly.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

But many who hate Calvin's description of God boast the same.

SO? No one's salvation is dependent on some man - though perhaps many may be are lost because of it!

TRUST THE FATHER, and RELY ON HIM, not on man who was proven so much like quicksand.

 

[Tra Phull]

Calvin said Paul "fell off his horse in fear" in road to Damascus experience, which has 4 accounts in NT, none of which mention Paul being on a horse.

Is that the HIGH HORSE that I am alleged as being on?

A non-existent horse that I should be on, while considering non-existent premises like "if Calvin was right"?

Michael Servetus, THE HUMAN TORCH, was as WRONG as all get-out about Trinity, but that doesn't mean it was right to BURN HIM AT THE STAKE, even though CALVIN THE MERCIFUL just proposed cutting off his head instead of roasting him to death.

This is HISTORY. Let all research the death of Servetus -and see the fruit of Calvin the Pope of Geneva