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LewisWildermuth

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What? Are you saying that I said that everyone believed the bible promotes slavery? Or are you saying that before Abe Lincolin there were no christian slaves?

I would like to know where exactly I said that everone belived in biblical slavery.
 
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alexgb00

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Originally posted by LewisWildermuth
Leviticus and I belive it is Philimon is used to support salvery let me repeat slavery.

Gimme a passage.

Philimon was a slave who ran away from his master (both men Romans, i believe), Paul protected Philimon from getting killed because he knew his master. Paul didn't encourage slavery -- he stepped in for a slave. In America in the 1800's people would call that an act of courage.

How many times have you seen Jesus painted with black hair or even looking halfway middle eastern? That in itself can be concidered bigotry.

No person living today knows how Jesus looked. Probably dark skin (from the climate), black hair, and predominantly Jewish facial features. But just because Jesus belonged to one race and not all of them doesn't mean bigotry. Just like saying that since i'm white, that makes me "demeaning" to Japanese and Brazilian people.

As strange as it may sound most caucasians picture Jesus as being caucasian.

Yeah, Africans picture Him as black, and Chinese picture Him as Oriental. What is your point, Lewis?

About that site you just used... Funny, it makes my point about the bible being misused for evil purposes and bigotry for me...

Sorry, Lew, i think you're a little sleepy. You didn't read something right or something. That is Hitler's Hit List. And i'm fourth on it.

And notice how they conveinently forgot about Jesus being Jewish but concidered him "Aryan".

Who are you talking about? I've never even seen a picture of Christ with blond hair and blue eyes (in other words, "Aryan").
 
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alexgb00

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No, no, Lewis. I don't think we understood each other. I was talking to Nick and said that thanks to Bible-believing people like Lincoln there is no more slavery in the US today. You may not disagree, but hey! It's America.

God bless you, man!
 
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LewisWildermuth

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So the Bible has never been missused to support slavery or bigotry or any other evil thing? Okay... Well that is against all of the rest of history but you are intitled to believe the sky is pink too I guess.

And you love Physics and Biology except for all those pesky little parts that go against a litteral interpretaion of the Bible... That is fine too.

As far as I am concerned though the truth is more important than any literal interpretation of the Bible. I believe that the Bible is worth far more and holds far more truth than just the simple deffinition of it's words.
 
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Originally posted by LewisWildermuth
So the Bible has never been missused (sic) to support slavery or bigotry or any other evil thing?

1. The operative word is misused. You do have to misuse and torture the text of the Bible if you want to use it to promote racism or slavery.

2. Interesting that you're focusing entirely on slavery, which does not necessarily have anything to do with racism. Slavery was around for thousands of years worldwide, it has taken on many different forms, and people who have been slaves were not necessarily of a different race than their masters.

3. When you dig up your Biblical references, be sure to compare them to Darwinian views ("higher races like the Caucasian would develop into more advance species while barbaric races like Negroes... would be eliminated." and "No rational man, cognizant of the facts, believes that the average Negro is the equal, still less the superior of the average white man.").
 
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LewisWildermuth

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Is the misuse of the scientific ideas behind biology physics and evolution proof that the ideas themselves are bad?

I don't care If Darwin thought that evolution could be used to support a bad pholosophy. The fact that Hawkings uses physics to support agnostic ideas doesn't thrill me but I cannot deny the math behind the science, just the jump to philosophy he makes.

Hitler used Christianity to support what he was doing, do I throw it out because of that? Many slaveholders were beleiving members of the Church too do I throw it out? The inquisition was supported by believers in the Bible, should I throw it out yet?

If I threw out anything that has ever been associated with evil acts at one time or another I would be living in a cave naked and starving.
 
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Originally posted by LewisWildermuth
Is the misuse of the scientific ideas behind biology physics and evolution proof that the ideas themselves are bad?

Of course not. Funny you should ask that, though. I don't ever recall seeing anyone make the claim that because science has been abused, science is immoral or should be abandoned and not studied.

But I see a LOT of evolutionists repeatedly cite the misuse of the Bible as evidence that believing the Bible is bad. Interesting double-standard.
 
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Freodin

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Strange. I have seen quite a few people who claimed that science was responsible for moral decay, crime, pornography and all kinds of "immoral" acts.

Goes to show that stupidity is not connected with philosophy.
 
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But I see a LOT of evolutionists repeatedly cite the misuse of the Bible as evidence that believing the Bible is bad. Interesting double-standard.

Maybe what you are seeing is evolution"ists" repeatedly citing the misuse of the Bible as evidence that misusing the Bible is bad.

1. The operative word is misused. You do have to misuse and torture the text of the Bible if you want to use it to promote racism or slavery.

Or, you can point at verses like Exodus 21:20-21, 1 Timothy 6:12, Leviticus 24:44-46, and Ephesians 6:5-6, and say - "look the plain meaing of the text advocates slavery." Then you can say, "only a complete moron can look at these passages and say they weren't intended to show us how we should think about and understand slavery!" Then, when the Godless Abolitionists point out that your advocacy of slavery is only justified by your personal interpretation of that scripture, you can look them dead in the eye and say, "if you are too stupid to tell the literal from the metaphorical, then you are too stupid to breathe."

Would that qualify as "misuse" of the Bible? Is the use of the Bible to attack science by similar techniques and rhetoric also "misuse", or not?


Are you sure these are Darwinian views? Can you tell me who wrote those words, and in what publication? The reason I ask is because you said this later in the thread:
I don't ever recall seeing anyone make the claim that because science has been abused, science is immoral or should be abandoned and not studied.

Therefore, I question whether those are actual darwinistic views you cited there, or whether they are misuse of science. If they are the latter, may I assume you weren't using them to criticize Darwinism?

By the way, I have a reference for you: some Creationist views on racism...
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/racism.html
 
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seebs

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This subthread really probably belongs in General Apologetics. I would point out that honesty compells us to admit that, with no recorded exceptions before the late 1500's, the entire Christian church believed that the Bible endorsed slavery. Someone wrote a counterargument in 1594, and was roundly laughed at. When abolitionists started showing up in numbers (mostly within the Quakers, I believe), they were attacked with 1 Timothy 6:1-5, which says first that slaves should obey their masters, and specifically says that their masters, should they be believers, are "faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit." ... and then goes on to say that anyone who teaches otherwise, he is a liar, disputing words and trying to corrupt God's word.

While I happen to agree with the conclusion that slavery is contrary to God's will, I am obliged to admit that the case for slavery arguing from the Bible is a strong one; I merely observe that God is exceptionally patient with us when we are blinded by our cultural upbringing, and I presume that He forgave people who kept slaves, and I hope that he will also forgive us the things we accept without question, but which are wrong.
 
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Morat

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   Yeah, that's one of my favorites.


  To sum up: The whale lay at a 50 degree angle, which wasn't surprising because that was the angle the strata was at. It wasn't sticking through strata, but running parallel with them.
 
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alexgb00

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Originally posted by LewisWildermuth
So the Bible has never been missused to support slavery or bigotry or any other evil thing? Okay... Well that is against all of the rest of history but you are intitled to believe the sky is pink too I guess.

A person who says that the Bible supports bigotry or racism either has a serious bias, or is severely mistaken. I think you're just mistaken, my friend. "All of history" doen't in any way point to the Bible as being the root of evil. Far from it.

And you love Physics and Biology except for all those pesky little parts that go against a litteral interpretaion of the Bible... That is fine too.

Nothing in physics or biology goes against the Bible. Evolution, which biology predates by hundreds, maybe thousands of years, isn't in agreement with the Bible. (By the way, biology doesn't interest me much, just the physical sciences.)

As far as I am concerned though the truth is more important than any literal interpretation of the Bible. I believe that the Bible is worth far more and holds far more truth than just the simple deffinition of it's words.

Yes, and i don't think the Bible is all literal either -- 100% true, but but some parts are figurative.

Sorry i didn't get back to you yesterday. My computer (56.6 connection) tends to stop working on the internet after a while. God bless you, Lew.
 
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alexgb00

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Originally posted by Freodin
Strange. I have seen quite a few people who claimed that science was responsible for moral decay, crime, pornography and all kinds of "immoral" acts.

I haven't. I'm a Christian, i go to a good Church, and nobody there believes this. Maybe Amish folks say this, but i'm not against science. I know not every scientist can be a moral person, but i like technology, science, reading magazines like Popular Mechanics and learning about space flight. I don't know where you get your claim, Freodin. Are you sure you're not making this up?

Goes to show that stupidity is not connected with philosophy.

Well, we can't all be as smart as you.
 
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Caedmon

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What are you talking about?! Water is a fundamental element!!! It's indivisible!!!

Lies, lies... ALL LIES!!!
 
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Caedmon

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Originally posted by alexgb00
Jerry, you must agree that evolution is a controversial topic. Biology isn't, chemistry isn't, physics isn't.

Quantum physics isn't controversial?!? *BLINK*


Which physics courses did you take? Have you ever studied cosmology?
 
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