• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Strange Fire

JM

Confessional Free Catholic
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2004
17,477
3,736
Canada
✟880,720.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
I had been handing out advance copies of my new book for free; the pastoral staff said I was welcome on campus. They were kind, and some of them even asked for photos and books, which I gave them and signed with a pen I borrowed from your son, Mark. He kindly lent it to me, we visited, and he too was very kind, very welcoming, and very gracious.

See you in Seattle, Pastor John MacArthur? | The Resurgence
 
Upvote 0

BBAS 64

Contributor
Site Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
10,049
1,801
60
New England
✟615,844.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Dr. James White Takes a look at the issue....

I decided to dedicate the entire program today to reviewing the first call Michael Brown took on The Line of Fire on Tuesday. It seemed to provide an excellent basis for actually addressing the most important elements of this controversy.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=G4te8zwhFnY
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

AndOne

Deliver me oh Lord, from evil men
Apr 20, 2002
7,477
462
Florida
✟28,628.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
From what I've heard MacArthur pretty much said that if you are charismatic you arent Christian. I disagree and really wish he wouldn't have done that. Probably could have been a lot of good come out of this but that statement alone pretty much shot down any credibility that his ministry has as far as I'm concerned.

As for Driscoll - I have been contemplating for a couple of years now if he might be a wolf among sheep and I must say his immature actions at the SF conference puts me a little closer to thinking he might be.
 
Upvote 0

Arete

Soli Deo Gloria
May 4, 2009
44
5
51
Alaska
Visit site
✟15,199.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
I encourage you to listen again. MacArthur did not say that in any of the sessions I have heard or books I have read. I may be wrong and you right. If so, let me know where to hear or read that. If he is wrong, he needs to be confronted with what he has said and taught, not how people feel and not on hearsay and quotes out of context.
 
Upvote 0

JM

Confessional Free Catholic
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2004
17,477
3,736
Canada
✟880,720.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
It wasn't what the other JM said but the way the whole conference ramped up to a us vs. them kind of thing.

I don't see how MacArthur can avoid the invite to Seattle. Driscoll essential gave him full access and control, with Mark paying for it all, so he could make it. Driscoll even offered to step aside and allow MacArthurs friend Wayne Grudem, to do all the interaction on the subject.
 
Upvote 0

desmalia

sounds like somebody's got a case of the mondays
Sep 29, 2006
5,786
943
Canada
Visit site
✟26,212.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Female
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
From what I've heard MacArthur pretty much said that if you are charismatic you arent Christian. I disagree and really wish he wouldn't have done that. Probably could have been a lot of good come out of this but that statement alone pretty much shot down any credibility that his ministry has as far as I'm concerned.
Having listened to the entire conference, I can tell you most definitely that is not what any of them were saying.

As for Driscoll - I have been contemplating for a couple of years now if he might be a wolf among sheep and I must say his immature actions at the SF conference puts me a little closer to thinking he might be.
Yeah, I'm not ready to call him a wolf, but immature is an appropriate word to describe his actions yet again.
 
Upvote 0
Oct 21, 2003
6,793
3,289
Central Time Zone
✟122,193.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
It wasn't what the other JM said but the way the whole conference ramped up to a us vs. them kind of thing.

I don't see how MacArthur can avoid the invite to Seattle. Driscoll essential gave him full access and control, with Mark paying for it all, so he could make it. Driscoll even offered to step aside and allow MacArthurs friend Wayne Grudem, to do all the interaction on the subject.

I read the invite, and I hope MacArthur will accept the invite. I do not know if John understands, but it could mean something to Reformed charismatics. I'll be honest, I am on the fence on this issue (long story), and have been for some time. I think Mark hit the nail on the head about essentials.

I decided to transcript a few quotes from the conference video clips I downloaded from the link you posted.

These are all from MacArthur...

#1 "...and it could well bring on God's judgement, what I'm talking about is the charismatic movement, it offers to God unacceptable worship, distorted worship, it blasphemes the Holy Spirit, it attributes to the Holy Spirit, even the work of Satan. People are caught up in it, deceived, led astray."
"false worship coming from the charismatic movement...this is about honoring the Spirit, rather than blaspheming him"

#2 “Look I understand that there are many charismatic Churches in which the Gospel is presented, and there are many charismatic people who are true Christians. What that means is people get saved in charismatic Churches where the Gospel is preached, and they are led to Christ by charismatic people who know Chirst.”

#26 “the Holy Spirit has been under massive assault for decades and decades and I’ve been asking the question where are the people rising up in protest against the abuse and the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit”

#31 “…the true legacy of the charismatic movement around the word is false doctrine false spiritual leadership false Church…..it is a false form of Christianity at its worst, not everybody’s in that catagory…if you look at the charismatic movement globally it is a false Church under false leadership with false doctrine.”

From the clips I've listened to, Steve Lawson did a more admirable job.

What does not sit right with me is the sweeping accusations of blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Do the charismatic Churches in which the Gospel is presented also blaspheme the Holy Spirit? I do not know if MacArthur understands, but based on my past personal experiences public displays of speaking in tongues, interpretation, and "prophecy" are rarely part of the worship service. Usually when they do, which may not be often, usually before or after prayer. I remember back in 95-97 attending a local charismatic "Church of God" for a couple of years, and I remember the pastor playing a video of the "Toronto blessing" and warning us to not get caught up in it. What we watched was obviously false, "holy laughter", people barking like dogs, even people riding other people like animals, unbelievable displays of mockery. There is no fear of God in such people.
 
Upvote 0

JM

Confessional Free Catholic
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2004
17,477
3,736
Canada
✟880,720.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
What did Driscoll do at the SF conference that was immature?

He was there giving out free advanced copies of his book, borrows a pen from Mark (John's son) and signed copies. At first he had permission to do so but latter was asked to leave. It seems they had a problem with Mark praying with the men at the conference. I think it was inappropriate for him to just show up but it weird how the Pastorial team allow him to sign books and than had him booted.
 
Upvote 0

AndOne

Deliver me oh Lord, from evil men
Apr 20, 2002
7,477
462
Florida
✟28,628.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Having listened to the entire conference, I can tell you most definitely that is not what any of them were saying.

I'll be honest - I haven't listened to any of the conference yet - but I did listen to Michael Brown's "line of fire" radio show on Monday in which he played clips from Mac's session in which it was essentially said that most if not all charismatics are not Christians and put them in the same boat as Mormons. To make matters worse Michael Brown specifically asked Phil Johnson on the show to repudiate those statements and he refused to do so. I'm sorry - but to paint "most if not all" Charismatics as unsaved is a big mistake and is a display of rotten fruit.

Mac has a problem of broad brushing those he criticizes and its not the first time he has done it. He's done it with padeobaptists as well. When he says that they don't make their arguments for the practice on scriptural grounds he is greatly mistaken. I may disagree with padeobaptists but I'm smart enough to realize they make the basis of their practice on scripture (though I think its an incorrect interpretation).
 
  • Like
Reactions: kenrapoza
Upvote 0

AndOne

Deliver me oh Lord, from evil men
Apr 20, 2002
7,477
462
Florida
✟28,628.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
I've come to deeply despise pentecostalism/charismatic/word of faith almost as much as romanism aka roman catholicism. I'm not at all sorry for saying that either.

You are making the same mistake as Mac here. It's a mistake to link all of Pentecostalism and charismatics to the word of faith movement. The word of faith movement is a false, apostate gospel. Charismatics are just those who believe that the gifts haven't ceased based on an interpretation of scripture.
 
Upvote 0

AmericanSamurai

the super dry member
Sep 24, 2012
1,157
181
America
✟24,738.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
You are making the same mistake as Mac here. It's a mistake to link all of Pentecostalism and charismatics to the word of faith movement. The word of faith movement is a false, apostate gospel. Charismatics are just those who believe that the gifts haven't ceased based on an interpretation of scripture.

From my experiences being at a lot of Pentecostal/Charismatic churches, they are very very sympathetic to the WOF movement and my opinion for that, are just as bad. Not to mention, they have a twisted view about faith, the Holy Spirit, and their authority on matters is never Scripture, it is mostly their own experience, and their own version of the Holy Spirit. I have family members that eat this stuff up hook, line, and sinker.:doh:
 
Upvote 0

AmericanSamurai

the super dry member
Sep 24, 2012
1,157
181
America
✟24,738.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
He was there giving out free advanced copies of his book, borrows a pen from Mark (John's son) and signed copies. At first he had permission to do so but latter was asked to leave. It seems they had a problem with Mark praying with the men at the conference. I think it was inappropriate for him to just show up but it weird how the Pastorial team allow him to sign books and than had him booted.


That definitely sounded like a d-bag move on Driscoll's part.
 
Upvote 0

JM

Confessional Free Catholic
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2004
17,477
3,736
Canada
✟880,720.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
That definitely sounded like a d-bag move on Driscoll's part.

:confused: He was given permission to handout his book and when folks started to pick it up and pray with him the volunteer secutiry told him to stop. He did. Attending the event may have been a poor decision but I make poor decisions all the time...I hope I'm not a dirt bag for doing so.

:sorry:

How can John MacArthur make such wide statements about the charismatic movement only to have Dr. Wayne Grudem teach for him?

For the record, I do not believe in modern "gifts."
 
Upvote 0

AmericanSamurai

the super dry member
Sep 24, 2012
1,157
181
America
✟24,738.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
:confused: He was given permission to handout his book and when folks started to pick it up and pray with him the volunteer secutiry told him to stop. He did. Attending the event may have been a poor decision but I make poor decisions all the time...I hope I'm not a dirt bag for doing so.

:sorry:

How can John MacArthur make such wide statements about the charismatic movement only to have Dr. Wayne Grudem teach for him?

For the record, I do not believe in modern "gifts."


Well was he praying like charismatics do, I didn't understand that part?

I agree about the Grudem part.
 
Upvote 0

AmericanSamurai

the super dry member
Sep 24, 2012
1,157
181
America
✟24,738.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Maybe Johnny Mac had him kicked out because he likes to drink English as well as imported beers. I remember that firestorm maybe a year or two ago on Grace to You's blog about drinking, lol. I posted a bunch of stuff much to the chagrin of Holier than thou teetotalers.:D
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0