Stop Trying to explain Sin

[Stryder06]

A lot of individuals seem to want to understand why Lucifer sinned in heaven. I myself had this question for a while until I came to the understanding that there was not one single reason for his rebellion. None.

To try to explain sin is to give it a reason for existence when there was/is none.

Satan, just like the rest of us, was created with free will, and for a time his highest honor was to bring glory to God. Something changed in him however that brought him to a point where he began to covet God's position.

Lucifer wasn't created evil and it was never God's intention for him to become evil and bring sin into God's perfect universe.

Sin is a mystery. There is no explaining why it came about. This is a question that is best left on the back burner. God will be able to explain it once we get to heaven. Until then, to try to theorize about it will lead you to dangerous ground.

Some questions will simply be unanswered until we get to heaven.

 

[Dark_Lite]

To try to explain sin is to give it a reason for existence when there was/is none.

So it just showed up and was like, "Sup?"

Sin is a mystery. There is no explaining why it came about. This is a question that is best left on the back burner. God will be able to explain it once we get to heaven. Until then, to try to theorize about it will lead you to dangerous ground.

To not understand is to have no reason for belief.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Stop Trying to explain Sin

LLOJ subscribes!

http://www.scripture4all.org/

John 9:41 Said to them the Jesus "if blind ye were, not ever ye had sin.
Now yet, ye are saying that 'we are seeing', the Sin of ye is remaining".

John 19:11 Answered Jesus "not thou are having authority against Me not-any except it was given to thee from above.
Because of this, the one giving Me up to thee greater Sin is having".

Reve 6:16 And they are saying to the mountains and to the rocks "be falling upon us! and hide us! from Face of the One sitting upon the Throne, and from the wrath of the Lambkin
17 that came the day, the great, of the wrath of Him, and who is able to stand'.
[Hosea 10:8/Luke 23:30]

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7245442
The "lambkin" in Revelation and John 21 question

 

[mont974x4]

Sin is the key problem which has its answer in Christ. It is an essential issue addressed by the very Gospel itself. To downplay its importance is to degrade our Lord and Savior and what He did on the cross. To toss sin out of the language of the Church is to toss out major portions of God's very Word for a great deal of time is devoted to defining sin and explaining what actions remove its stains and what actions we are called to perform instead of sin.

To ignore the sin issue would be like ignoring the dark. What value has light apart from understanding the dark? What value is pleasure if we do not understand pain? What value is joy if we do not understand sorrow?


Keep in mind a sign of spiritual maturity, according to Scripture, is being able to discern evil from good.

The Law was given so man would know what sin is and why we need a Savior.

It is in knowing how lost I was that I come to fully appreciate the joy of being found!!

 

[Stryder06]

So it just showed up and was like, "Sup?"

Are you saying God created sin?

To not understand is to have no reason for belief.

That's a silly notion. You can't understand God and yet you fully believe in Him. We have to deal with the fact that we simply won't understand everything in this life.

 

[Stryder06]

Sin is the key problem which has its answer in Christ. It is an essential issue addressed by the very Gospel itself. To downplay its importance is to degrade our Lord and Savior and what He did on the cross. To toss sin out of the language of the Church is to toss out major portions of God's very Word for a great deal of time is devoted to defining sin and explaining what actions remove its stains and what actions we are called to perform instead of sin.

Keep in mind a sign of spiritual maturity, according to Scripture, is being able to discern evil from good.

The Law was given so man would know what sin is and why we need a Savior.

It is in knowing how lost I was that I come to fully appreciate the joy of being found!!

I think you missed what I was saying. I'm not saying that we shouldn't talk about sin. I'm not saying that we shouldn't explain how sin has affected us and the cost that was paid for our redemption. I'm not saying that sin should be downplayed or ignored.

I'm saying that a reason behind sin shouldn't be established. To try to explain the origin of sin is to give it a reason for existence.

I go to be because I'm tired.
I eat because I'm hungry.

Lucifer sinned because he became prideful, but the reason for him to become prideful is a mystery and cannot be explained. He was in the presence of God and knew how awesome and loving He was.

There was zero reason for Lucifer to rebel and become the enemy of God. None. It can't be explained and a reason can't be given for it, nor should one be sought.

To ignore the sin issue would be like ignoring the dark. What value has light apart from understanding the dark? What value is pleasure if we do not understand pain? What value is joy if we do not understand sorrow?

This is so wrong. Do you think that the angels in heaven don't truly value pleasure and joy? Sorrow and pain are not necessary. That's like saying that God is unable to totally satisfy you without the good unless he brings suffering upon you. Adam and Eve were made perfect and every good thing was available to them. You think that after they sinned and were cast out of Eden that they said "Well I'll sure enough be able to appreciate it more once I get it back?"

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Just study the jewish/hebrew book of Revelation folkz [and not like the SDA's do ehehe]

 

[Dark_Lite]

Are you saying God created sin?

I'm saying there's a reason sin exists.

That's a silly notion. You can't understand God and yet you fully believe in Him. We have to deal with the fact that we simply won't understand everything in this life.

Can't understand God fully*

We can understand God to some extent, and we can understand sin to some extent.

 

[Stryder06]

Just study the jewish/hebrew book of Revelation folkz [and not like the SDA's do ehehe]

Of course. Studying it like we do just makes sense. Who would ever want to understand that oh so important book, especially considering the times we live in.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Of course. Studying it like we do just makes sense. Who would ever want to understand that oh so important book, especially considering the times we live in.

The SDA's are so far out in "left field" on that divine Book, it is no wonder the Jews and Muslims mock our NT/NC

http://www.christianforums.com/t6982465-107/#post44368491
Is Sunday worship the mark of the beast?

 

[Stryder06]

The SDA's are so far out in "left field" on that divine Book, it is no wonder the Jews and Muslims mock our NT/NC

http://www.christianforums.com/t6982465-107/#post44368491
Is Sunday worship the mark of the beast?

Truth is always unpopular. Anywho, this isn't about Revelation, so let's not turn it into that. K? Thanks

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Truth is always unpopular. Anywho, this isn't about Revelation, so let's not turn it into that. K? Thanks

Yeah......
I notice when I quote Revelation on threads it tends to be "unpopular" and is relegated to the Eschatology "twilght zone" board

 

[mont974x4]

What is being presented is not truth. It is a distraction and is dangerous. If we can explain away the beginning of sin then we do not have to face its existence, which I have shown in a previous post that is a dangerous and unacceptable road for a person to go down. It is the same as trying to explain away Creation. If we can discount God's roll in creation we can discount His role in everything. If we can discount sins beginning then we never have to face its realities.

 

[Emmy]

Dear Stryder06. God is LOVE, Man is sinful. We are on Earth to learn to love, to become as God wants us to be, 1) love God with all our hearts, all our souls, and all our minds. 2) Love our neighbour, all others, whether friend or foe, as we love our selves. St. Paul tells us what loving truly and selflessly, is like. 1) Corinthians, chapter 13, verses 4-8. Anything we do, or say, which is contrary to love is SIN. We live in this imperfect world, where temptation surrounds us day and night. To overcome sin, we have to learn to say NO to sin. This is not easy, but after trying again and again and again, it becomes more easy and possible. We have years to learn, we have Jesus to help and guide us, and we have God, our Heavenly Father, to forgive us every time we stumble or fail. God knows how hard it is for us to become perfect, although Jesus told us to become perfect, as God is perfect. God can see our hearts, He knows how hard and sincerely we are trying to learn, and become as loving as we possibly can. To be without love, devoid of love altogether, is being an offspring, or follower of Satan. God made us in His image, we know the difference between Love=Good, and no Love=not good. When God made us we were Good, but Adam and Eve=our prototypes, fell victims to temptation. We were banished to Earth to learn to love again, God first, He is Worthy, and then each other as we love ourselves. NO LOVE = SIN. I say this humbly and with love, Stryder06. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[Stryder06]

What is being presented is not truth. It is a distraction and is dangerous. If we can explain away the beginning of sin then we do not have to face its existence, which I have shown in a previous post that is a dangerous and unacceptable road for a person to go down. It is the same as trying to explain away Creation. If we can discount God's roll in creation we can discount His role in everything. If we can discount sins beginning then we never have to face its realities.

I'm sorry but I'm not seeing it that way. Are you saying that there is a reason for son to exist?

I'm not trying to not face the realities of sin. No one should do that. What I am saying is that we need not give a reason for its existence because there isn't one. That's not saying that we shouldn't deal with why it's here and how it has plagued our world.

Think about how many people try to discredit the character of God by trying to attribute the existence of sin to Him. God is perfect and loving. He never intended for there to be sin. What He did was make provision and a way out of sin. He didn't design it.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LLOJ unsubscribes........

 

[mont974x4]

God saw fit to explain how sin entered the world through one man, Adam. This indicates the validity of trying to understand the foundations of the sin problem.

on that note, I will also unsubscribe

 

[max1120]

A lot of individuals seem to want to understand why Lucifer sinned in heaven. I myself had this question for a while until I came to the understanding that there was not one single reason for his rebellion. None.

I believe I am the individule you are discussing..lol Yes I have a great curiousity regarding this question as it goes straight to heart all the questions regarding man, god, and creation and the relationships involved.

To try to explain sin is to give it a reason for existence when there was/is none.

All things have a "reason" for existence. Please inform me of something you know of which exist without any reason. You may not know the reason but it does exist, simple logic will prove this fact.

Satan, just like the rest of us, was created with free will, and for a time his highest honor was to bring glory to God. Something changed in him however that brought him to a point where he began to covet God's position.

Ok "he began to covet god's position", so what I may covet all the gold in Ft. Knox, that dose not mean that I am going to try to break in and steal it. Why? Simple becaue I know the risk are so great that my chance of success is quite low (near zero) also I know the cost (likely ending up dead or locked away in prision for the remainder of my life) is to great a wager given the extreemely low probability of success and the extreemely high probability of failure. Thus "the jucie is not worth the squeeze". Unless something changed dramatically that equation and convinced me that not only could I get in but get out with the gold and succesfully unload (sell) the gold (without getting caught or destroy the price of gold thus making it worthless) I am not about to even think of attempting such an thing. You would have to show me "secert" information that would get me past all the sucurity and provide me an exit that would insure my safety. Then you would have to provide me with a network to unload and safely sell the gold again without driving the price down to nothing or getting me caught. Drop me a line when you have that all figured out..lol Needless to say I will not hold my breath as I doubt you can figure it out since it has never been done successfully.

I think Lucifer rebellion was a little like the above scenerio. He had to have some inside knowledge that led him to believe he was going to be able to pull it off. This would have to be something pretty strong and convincing. Either (1) god gave or produced this belief in him (thus making god the creator of evil and not the nice guy we believe him to be), (2) Lucifer was an idoit (and the 1/3 or the angles that followed even bigger baffons). But this would make god not so bright either becaue why would a "supreme being" who is "all powerful and all knowing" even concieve of placing a baffon as his second in command. Remember Lucifer was second only to god in heaven so he had to be highly intelligent and not some crack head idoit out for a quick buck. or (3) Lucifer discovered a geniune vunerability in god that allowed him see the possibility of his rebellion succeeding. This had to be as very real and very serious vunerability to intice the interest of a being so intelligent as Lucifer. We do not know what it was since of course god would not want to make it widely known to us since this would be contrary to his interest. This does not mean it does not exist.

Lucifer wasn't created evil and it was never God's intention for him to become evil and bring sin into God's perfect universe.

I fully agree with you Lucifer was not created evil and it was not god's origional intention for Lucifer to be evil or to bring about "sin".

Sin is a mystery. There is no explaining why it came about. This is a question that is best left on the back burner. God will be able to explain it once we get to heaven. Until then, to try to theorize about it will lead you to dangerous ground.

I have head this before usually regarding subjects that are highly contraversial and touch on merkey areas of scripture. The truth is that the search for the truth is never dangerous. "The truth shall set you free"!

Some questions will simply be unanswered until we get to heaven.

Perhaps but than again why? Knowing something of this magnatude is important and has a lot of implications regarding the nature of god, man, and Lucifer. Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[max1120]

So it just showed up and was like, "Sup?"

To not understand is to have no reason for belief.

By George I think he's got it! BRAVO!!!

You are absolutely correct my fearless friend. We must use reason and seek out the truth in all things. The truth is never bad nor good, it is simply reality. For all things there is a reason, and that reason is important to understand. Never let anyone say to you "abandon all reason" for this is the beging of trouble.

As my grandfather use to say "there is nothing to loose by asking a question except ignorance"!

 

[Cribstyl]

A lot of individuals seem to want to understand why Lucifer sinned in heaven. I myself had this question for a while until I came to the understanding that there was not one single reason for his rebellion. None.

To try to explain sin is to give it a reason for existence when there was/is none.

Satan, just like the rest of us, was created with free will, and for a time his highest honor was to bring glory to God. Something changed in him however that brought him to a point where he began to covet God's position.

Lucifer wasn't created evil and it was never God's intention for him to become evil and bring sin into God's perfect universe.

Sin is a mystery. There is no explaining why it came about. This is a question that is best left on the back burner. God will be able to explain it once we get to heaven. Until then, to try to theorize about it will lead you to dangerous ground.

Some questions will simply be unanswered until we get to heaven.

If that is truth..........Why does SDA have more to say about Lucifer's sin than any other church?


Tell me why does SDA establish sin as transgression of the law to negate what Paul teaches about sin and creation?
It's not reasonable that John 3:4 implied before the law was given.

Tell me why SDA say that Lucifer broke the law?