Stolen Valour

[Zoii]

I've been looking through my great grandfather's and grandfathers' military histories and in the process came across a phenomena known as 'Stolen Valour'. This is where a person impersonates military personnel and/or claims military commendations they are not entitled to. What I am shocked about, is just how prolific this is, particularly in the USA. One YouTube series focuses on phoney US Navy SEALs with a guy outing more than 25/day of people claiming to be SEALs.

It happens I am sure in every country though anecdotally seems to be very significant in USA.

My question is: What is going on here - whats driving this proliferation? Does it bother people or is it actually no big deal to most?

I attach a youtube as an example of the issue.

 

[Sketcher]

It's just a way of being fake. Some people think it will get them credibility or attention from the opposite sex. I've heard of cases where fraudsters tried and for a while, succeeded at getting veteran's benefits from the government. I've also heard of cases where anti-war people did fake video confessions of having committed atrocities overseas. One thing they all have in common is that they are all losers.

 

[Zoii]

It's just a way of being fake. Some people think it will get them credibility or attention from the opposite sex. I've heard of cases where fraudsters tried and for a while, succeeded at getting veteran's benefits from the government. I've also heard of cases where anti-war people did fake video confessions of having committed atrocities overseas. One thing they all have in common is that they are all losers.

It seems to be more than just getting something concrete like a girlfriend or a benefit, because they cite all sorts of commendations, fantastic missions they undertook, bravery medals, injuries etc - What is going on in our communities that so many are wanting this.

 

[Dave-W]

What is going on in our communities that so many are wanting this.

People want to be valued and validated. If there is little in their own life to get that, they steal it from someone else.

 

[Zoii]

People want to be valued and validated. If there is little in their own life to get that, they steal it from someone else.

Dave, its particularly prominent in the USA and almost exclusively men. Why do you think that is?

 

[Sketcher]

It seems to be more than just getting something concrete like a girlfriend or a benefit, because they cite all sorts of commendations, fantastic missions they undertook, bravery medals, injuries etc - What is going on in our communities that so many are wanting this.

The more you lie, the more you have to cover for it. There have always been fakes.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Dave, its particularly prominent in the USA and almost exclusively men. Why do you think that is?

Not a lot of female Navy SEALS. Also, we have a distorted perception of the military.

 

[Dave-W]

Dave, its particularly prominent in the USA and almost exclusively men. Why do you think that is?

Good question. Probably there has been a history of men being ridiculed here in the US for at least the last 50 years.

 

[durangodawood]

Good question. Probably there has been a history of men being ridiculed here in the US for at least the last 50 years.

Oh the poor poor men!

I think its because looking "badass" has traditionally been more important for men's self image than for women's, on average.

 

[Dave-W]

Oh the poor poor men!

I think its because looking "badass" has traditionally been more important for men's self image than for women's, on average.

No - not “badass,” but like idiots that are completely clueless. Unable to even do properly the simplist of things.



Stuff that negatively impacts a woman’s self image is sexist.
Stuff that negatively impacts a man’s self image is brilliant humor.

 

[durangodawood]

No - not “badass,” but like idiots that are completely clueless. Unable to even do properly the simplist of things.

Well that may be the reality. But I was talking about self-image.

 

[Dave-W]

Well that may be the reality. But I was talking about self-image.

Of course. Media portrayals are where much of that comes from, ESPECIALLY if there is culturally expected very little emotional affirmation of boys, “Be Hard, Be a MAN.”

Usually that means cold, emotionally distant and not connected. While it fits the expected stereotype, it leaves a huge hole in guys’ emotional makeup.

Even if they get all honors and sports achievements, dads cannot fully acknolodge it. So the guys when they grow up try to get those needed approvals from other means, even if they have to steal it.

 

[Dave-W]

Dave, its particularly prominent in the USA and almost exclusively men. Why do you think that is?

I read recently a list of things teen girls want their guys to know about girls.

One thing that came up in almost every girl’s list was something like having their guy friends know “it is ok to cry” or “it is alright to show emotions.”

I am in my 60s and had crying and emotional responses beaten out of me by age 7. While I assume that kind of abuse does not go on these days, there apparently is still a HUGE stigma on a young guy getting emotional and crying. That is here in the US. I cannot speak for anywhere else.

 

[Zoii]

Not a lot of female Navy SEALS

I dont know much about SEALs but Im guessing there would be zero women. But there would be quite a few in the general military divisions wouldnt there?

Also, we have a distorted perception of the military.

what did you mean by this? I wasnt sure how to read it.

 

[Dave-W]

I dont know much about SEALs but Im guessing there would be zero women. But there would be quite a few in the general military divisions wouldnt there?

There was a big hullabaloo last year when the first woman passed the training for becoming a Navy Seal.

The Navy Gets Its First Female SEAL Candidate

I do not think she actually finished and became a seal.

Yes, there are a lot of women in the US military.

 

[dgiharris]

My question is: What is going on here - whats driving this proliferation? Does it bother people or is it actually no big deal to most?

It is a big deal and I wish the Police would take it seriously and actually arrest people who do it. Quite simply, impersonating someone in the military is impersonating an agent of the State and/or a government official. Would it be ok for me to impersonate an FBI agent, an IRS agent, a city building inspector???

I was an Officer in the military and as an Officer in the military I actually carried the authority of the President of the United States. If I gave anyone beneath me a legal order then by law and penalty of imprisonment (or in rare situations actual death), they are required to follow that order. Needless to say, as a member of the military you have a lot of power over other members of the military you outrank.

Now, the US is unique in that our military has very strict laws and guidelines concerning operations on US soil. For the most part, military members on US soil do not have the power/authority that they do when on a military base, in a Theater of Operations or Outside of the US. So to a lot of Americans they think it isn't a big deal to impersonate someone in the military and they think no harm no foul...

But it is a big deal.

Why do people do it?

Tons of reasons. Narcissism, ego, recognition, feelings of accomplishment, etc.

As a former military member it is super easy to spot someone who is faking it. It's like trying to fake speaking Chinese to a native Chinese person... Usually they are out of uniform and/or wearing the uniform incorrectly. Then of course it is their mannerisms and last but definitely not least is how they talk. IN the military we talk in acronyms and have a certain demeanor that you can't fake to someone who is the real deal...

 

[Dave-W]

Why do people do it?

Tons of reasons. Narcissism, ego, recognition, feelings of accomplishment, etc.

As a former military member it is super easy to spot someone who is faking it. It's like trying to fake speaking Chinese to a native Chinese person..

Ah for the days of the 1960s and 70s when being in the military was despised by much of American society.

 

[dgiharris]

Ah for the days of the 1960s and 70s when being in the military was despised by much of American society.

Yeah, hatred of the military was at a all time high then... which is kinda ironic because it wasn't the military's fault, it was the then Presidents who got us into that unwinnable war...

Without a doubt, Vietnam veterans had it the roughest and the hell they went through... man, it really is something to think about...