Still wondering

[Boxers1]

Marc,

I don't mean to keep re-hashing the unforgiveable sin thing, but it really has been a huge fear for me. If that verse in Matthew was never in the bible, I don't think I would have even thought anything offensive regarding the Spirit. I still struggle that my mind is able to blaspheme, but I still believe in Christ. It it so weird and I so wish Christ would have explained that what he was talking about was a permanent rejection of him. If he would have explained it like that, I would have been home free. Honestly, the verse in Hebrews that everybody says is the same thing makes more sense to me and I really don't worry about it b/c I know I can repent. But the Matthew verse is just terrifying at times. I know that if I compare scripture with scripture I can come to the real conclusion, but boy it's tough. i know the truth and I can say it to others, but it is hard to embrace fully inside myself.
Thanks.

 

[faithfulfriend]

I have had OCD and have two daughters who are suffering OCD and amazingly the three of us have stuggled with the Blasphemy of the Holy Spririt thing. When you are really ill with OCD it is hard to see a way out and you are convinced that you really believe what you think. I thankfully am free now of these intrusive thoughts and if they do try to come in I can flick them off really quickley. I like the verses in Revelations that say "to him who overcomes" It takes time....................

You say that if the verse was never in the Bible you would have never had a problem. Later in this answer I will explain something that really helped me to understand why we have had the problem.

Last year I cried out to God and said "WHY DID YOU PUT THAT VERSE IN THE BIBLE" when my second daughter ended up in hospital because of the stuggle she was having with those very thoughts, she comes out of hospital tomorrow having been there for 5 months. Thankfully she is soooo much better now with medication and therapy.

I have done a bit of research on OCD and this explanation reeeeally helped me.

I can't remember all of the facts but here it is in a nutshell.
A while back there was a study done whereby they sat two groups of people down to watch a video. To one group they told them to watch the video and sent them on their way. To the second group they told them to watch the video but they mustn't concentrate on the 'WHITE BEAR' the second group watched the video and were sent on their way. 1 year later both groups were bought back in and asked about the video they had seen the year before. The first group could hardly remember what they had watched. They second group could ONLY REMEMBER "THE WHITE BEAR" The very thing they wanted to avoid was the thing they couldn't get out of their minds.

I have been told that the OCD thoughts are actually the opposite to who a person is, because the things that trip them up are the very things that they care about the most and are most afraid of doing. Usually very sensitive and caring people. Often a traumatic event sets off OCD and that fight or flight thing can kick in. In order to fight there are chemicals which are released in the body and our whole mind and body can be affected by this and mess up the way feel and think.

Hope this helps a little.

Faithfulfried

 

[Boxers1]

Faithful friend:

Thank you so much for sharing. My heart aches for the grief you and your daughters have gone through over this and I understand. Honestly for me in the past the only thing that kept me from despair was "Him that cometh to me, I will in no wise cast out." I am in the process of seeking therapy and medication to help control my OCD. My thoughts are "drawn" to things I should not think of and things I don't believe at all. Sometimes I think it was cruel of Jesus to make his "vague" statement without any provided interpretation knowing that it would be in the Bible and TONS of people would be tortured for who knows how long over the verse. I mean Jesus is God and he had to know the effects his statement would make on people like us, I just wish he would have either explained it fully (saying it is impossible to repent of it) or just left it out of the bible altogether if it only applied to the blinded pharisees. I truly ache for everyone who has been tortured in this way and I plead for God's mercy to reach all of us in a special way. I hope we can all continue to understand that are thoughts are fleeting, they don't represent our heart or our spiritual condition and are the product only of our fears and compulsions from this disorder. May the Spirit of Grace, the Spirit of Christ shower you and your daughters with all comfort and peace. May we always remember it is the ministry of the spirit to bring us to Christ so when we come to him, there is no way we can have rejected the spirit in our lives.

Boxers1

 

[marcb]

Boxers1,

I think you are working out the "grace" part of this nicely. That is where we always wind up - Grace! This could be an example of what Paul means by "work out your salvation with fear and trembling."

Through the tribulations of ocd and "feeling" so fallen, we learn to appreciate how sweet and powerful Grace really is.

I too have gone out of my mind asking why that verse was in the Bible. It just is. Jesus was not talking to us as believers. Maybe we should be asking, why am I so afraid of it in spite of all evidence to the contrary? The answer, in part is ocd. Not that people without ocd haven't had this struggle, but they seem to be able to let it go. Here's where the clinical side of picture becomes important. I finally bottomed out and realized I am sick and tired of this cycle of perceived damnation followed by reassurance. I decided after much prayer and those blessed "clear headed" moments that this is not spiritual and is irrational. I am now trying to think of every thought as a cough, ache, tic, or any other symptom that we experience when "ill." Sometimes are harder than others, but with the help of God, this will devalue the thoughts and help free me to do His will.

May God bless us all with thoughts of His Love and Grace.

Marc

P.S.,

Read Ephesians - it was written for Christians and shows how God views us. Reading the Gospels and taking the words intended for Christ's enemies and aiming them at ourselves is an error which has clouded our minds. My brother has a great analogy: Reading Mark Chapter 3 does not make you a Pharisee any more than watching the Sopranos makes you a mobster.

 

[faithfulfriend]

Boxerrs1
Thanks so much for caring, it is great to have others who truely understand the depth of suffering that we Christians go through with OCD. It has been really hard at times but God has been right there with me and now at least I can see some meaning in my suffering. I never told anyone about my condition and so went through it by myself. I asked God to show me in a special way that he really loved me. I remember being so desperate!!!!!!!!!!!! to know his love after suffering for a number of years. Something really special happened a few days later. I went into our local bank to bank some money and there on the desk in front of me someone had written on the back of a deposit slip 'Jesus Loves You' I tell you I knew that was for me I had tears of joy in my eyes and I had the peace of God come over me. It was so very special. I will never forget it. I encourage everyone to ask for a special touch from God, it might take some time "In His Time" but I know he will do it for you. We have seen God answer my daughter's prayers for his pressense in their lives and he has answered them in a miraculous ways as well. I will share if anyone would be interested I don't know why he put that verse there but I do know that there is hope.

God Bless
Faithfulfriend

 

[lindsaye]

i also have serious problems with blasphemous thoughts or saying things inside my head uncontrollably..do any of you have th compulsion to actually SAY the words? I compulsively SAY the blasphemy out loud sometimes and can't seem to help it..i will just randomly say it or if i am listening to music i will speak the evil words along with the beat of the song..i know it sounds like i am SICK and insane but its like i can't control it!
i get really scared because i feel like blasphemy against the holy spirit is a SPEAKING sin..all of you keep talking about thoughts but what about saying the WORDS? is that still OCD?

 

[marcb]

Yes, it's still ocd because we can think about little else. If you read scripture aloud and included those verses, are you committing the "unpardonable sin"? NO! Therefore it is more than just the words, whether thinking them or saying them.

Also, lately I have not been so troubled by this issue, but I'll tell you there are an infinite amount of thoughts and doubts that manifest because of ocd or because of the struggles of the life of faith. We all have these thoughts. OCD simply magnifies, replays, and searches for them.

 

[Liftyourhand7]

lindsaye, Hi, I am so sorry you are struggling with this terrible disorder, I would say yes, saying the words aloud that you are saying is all part of your OCD, The obsessive part is thinking the thoughts and the complusive part is saying them aloud, I also struggle with OCD and have been doing alot of research on it. A few weeks ago I posted an explanation on someone elses posting area about the unpardonable sin If you want to read it look for it there. Believe me the Lord has not left you and never will. OCD really does attack the things that we love the most and of course we have another enemy (satan) who uses our weaknesses against us.Keep trusting God to get you through this, just ask him he will help you. You may need help also from a doctor, and a couselor who deals with OCD,don't give up the Lord loves you and will see you through even this. Try reading the Psalms for now and just let the Holy Spirit minister to you. Even when those thoughts come just press on and read God's word.I will be praying for you. Blessings Jan

 

[QUannie]

WOW! I thought I was the only one!!!! I thought I was mental!!!
Thanks all of you for sharing your personnal stuff!!!
I've been praying for us all!!!
Q

 

[PARCmd]

So if her (lindsaye) OCD includes deliberately saying the words out due to anxiety (i.e., compulsions), does that mean that mental compulsions are also not considered sin, whether you're able to cancel them or not?

 

[ChristianGuitarMan112190]

In my opinion My OCD is a curse but also a gift!! I went through the worst of it!! And developed spiritual muscle!! OCD can turn out to be quite a blessing really if you dont get brought down by it!! God knows you have OCD!! Idk what to tell you about the conclusion you want!! Bottom line is that satan sees your scared of that and tortures you with it NEVER put faith in feelings thats where the devil wants you its easy for him to deceive you like that the devil is a liar!! Always put your faith in God!! God Loves You!! As Long as you cling to him and stop obsessing youll drop these things!! He don't want to waste your time on the devils lies and deceptions!! Instead of worrying about all that you should learn more about God!! And become closer to him!! I gaurantee you youll feel SO much better!!

 

[gracealone]

Boxers1,

I decided after much prayer and those blessed "clear headed" moments that this is not spiritual and is irrational. I am now trying to think of every thought as a cough, ache, tic, or any other symptom that we experience when "ill." Sometimes are harder than others, but with the help of God, this will devalue the thoughts and help free me to do His will.

Perfect Marc, just perfect! And we are always free to do His will with or without the "ticks/coughs". OCD cannot interfere with our choice to follow and obey Him. He wants us to learn that "His grace is sufficient for us" - no matter what the affliction is.

Blessings,
Mitzi

 

[gracealone]

I went through the worst of it!! And developed spiritual muscle!!

Yes!! this is awesome. You developed spirtual muscle not in spite of the fact that you have OCD but because you have OCD. "For my strength is made perfect in your weakness."

Thanks for sharing your story... it's great to hear your testimony.
God Bless, Mitzi