any place in the OT where the words used in the genesis account are used for anything other then a literal day and a literal night (ie rough 24 hour periods, etc..). Thanks. 
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still wants to know...
- Thread starter Outspoken
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Follower of Christ
Literal 6 Day Creationist<br />''An Evening and a
I see that you have probably done some studying judging from the question.
I will definetly like to see the responses on this.
I will definetly like to see the responses on this.
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There aren't any except maybe this:
In Genesis I
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. 6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day
Heaven and earth created on two different days
and
Genesis 2
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Heaven and earth created "in the day".
And then there is this, which didn't quite turn out to be literal.
Genesis 2:17 - But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
In Genesis I
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. 6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day
Heaven and earth created on two different days
and
Genesis 2
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Heaven and earth created "in the day".
And then there is this, which didn't quite turn out to be literal.
Genesis 2:17 - But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
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Follower of Christ
Literal 6 Day Creationist<br />''An Evening and a
Well, if thats the best anyone could come up with, then I wont have to convert to atheism after all...
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"Genesis 2:17 - But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
Nope, they did die that day, spiritually. And their physical death started, read romans. So that ones out. The others are in the passage in question and are ruled out. So far we have Josh 24:7 and Hosea 6:2 Lets check those out shall we?
Joshua 24:7 seems applicable, but again 1. the context shows us different usage of the word (good job ) BUT this is not in the book of genesis thus in another context all together as in Hosea 6:2. This would indicate that the words used in genesis are in all probalbilty literal days and nights considering these words are used IN ABUNDANCE in the book of genesis and ALWAYS used for a literal day and night. I was wondering if anyone would get the Josh verse..its the first one I found too
Nope, they did die that day, spiritually. And their physical death started, read romans.
So that ones out. The others are in the passage in question and are ruled out. So far we have Josh 24:7 and Hosea 6:2 Lets check those out shall we?Joshua 24:7 seems applicable, but again 1. the context shows us different usage of the word (good job
) BUT this is not in the book of genesis thus in another context all together as in Hosea 6:2. This would indicate that the words used in genesis are in all probalbilty literal days and nights considering these words are used IN ABUNDANCE in the book of genesis and ALWAYS used for a literal day and night. I was wondering if anyone would get the Josh verse..its the first one I found too
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Late_Cretaceous
<font color="#880000" ></font&g
It is possible to accept the story of creation, Adam and Eve, Noah's arc, and the exodus as myths an fables and still manage to keep your faith. That won't make you an athiest or condem you to hell. In fact over 80% of catholic clergy would heartily agree with you.
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Today at 12:30 AM Outspoken said this in Post #9
Joshua 24:7 seems applicable, but again 1. the context shows us different usage of the word (good job
Why the change in criteria? Your original question was for Old Testament references, of which all of the given verses are. How does their not being in Genesis exclude them from legitimate consideration as lexical examples of the Hebrew language?
You also didn't address Gen 4:3.
You posed a question, and I answered it. You are fully entitled to critique the text in question, as have many Christian scholars in the past. But you cannot say that there exist no Bible scholars today who translate the word yom in Genesis 1 as other than a 24-hour period, because it simply isn't the case.
If you want specific examples, please refer to the thread entitled "Do you trust God's word?"
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"Why the change in criteria? "
I haven't changed it at all. The word is used over 1000 times and at LEAST 950 of them are used for a literal 24 hour period. You do the math.
"You posed a question, and I answered it. "
No, you offered evidience that I addressed myself when I first researched the question a year or so ago. If they are honest, yes they cite it as a 24 hour literal period in terms of the context and word useage. To do anything else is to 1 change the context of the passage 2 disregard the book as a whole and 3 insert your thoughts onto the passage and not let the passage speak for itself. All of which are wrong to do.
I haven't changed it at all. The word is used over 1000 times and at LEAST 950 of them are used for a literal 24 hour period. You do the math.
"You posed a question, and I answered it. "
No, you offered evidience that I addressed myself when I first researched the question a year or so ago. If they are honest, yes they cite it as a 24 hour literal period in terms of the context and word useage. To do anything else is to 1 change the context of the passage 2 disregard the book as a whole and 3 insert your thoughts onto the passage and not let the passage speak for itself. All of which are wrong to do.
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Hold on a second. You asked for ANY examples from the OLD TESTAMENT. That's what I gave you. You didn't ask for several hundred, or a number of references using the word in one way that would exceed the number used in another way.
The fact that yom denotes a 24-hour period in the vast majority of cases in the Old Testament is indisputable. That, of course, makes it more "statistically" likely that the word would be used in this manner in any given passage. But the fact that there ARE exceptions to the rule negates any insistence that it MUST be interpreted that way in Genesis 1 (or anywhere else). You may assign any likelihood you want to based on the "math" (95%, 98%, 99.999%), but it still does not add up to 100%. The possibility of an alternate translation still exists. In any event, exigesis is not a mathematical endeavor.
Like you and many others in this forum, I have done extensive research on this issue. Since there is no way to meaningfully measure the quantity or quality of one's research compared to another's, all we can say is this: we have both done our research and have apparently come to differing conclusions. We can throw authors and quotes and references at one another ad infinitum, but when it comes right down to it, the Bible is a matter of personal interpretation. I have reason to believe what I believe, but I also recognize the fallability of human understanding, and thus will not allow myself to force my own personal interpretation of God's word on any other person.
The fact that yom denotes a 24-hour period in the vast majority of cases in the Old Testament is indisputable. That, of course, makes it more "statistically" likely that the word would be used in this manner in any given passage. But the fact that there ARE exceptions to the rule negates any insistence that it MUST be interpreted that way in Genesis 1 (or anywhere else). You may assign any likelihood you want to based on the "math" (95%, 98%, 99.999%), but it still does not add up to 100%. The possibility of an alternate translation still exists. In any event, exigesis is not a mathematical endeavor.
Like you and many others in this forum, I have done extensive research on this issue. Since there is no way to meaningfully measure the quantity or quality of one's research compared to another's, all we can say is this: we have both done our research and have apparently come to differing conclusions. We can throw authors and quotes and references at one another ad infinitum, but when it comes right down to it, the Bible is a matter of personal interpretation. I have reason to believe what I believe, but I also recognize the fallability of human understanding, and thus will not allow myself to force my own personal interpretation of God's word on any other person.
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You asked for ANY examples from the OLD TESTAMENT."
True. I was hoping you'd try and find any of the 700 or so in genesis (I think its around that number..not sure). What you will find is all of them are used except maybe a couple, to indicate 24 hour periods.
"But the fact that there ARE exceptions to the rule negates any insistence that it MUST be interpreted that way in Genesis 1 (or anywhere else). You may assign any likelihood you want to based on the "math" (95%, 98%, 99.999%), but it still does not add up to 100%. "
considering the context of the book of genesis (literal history) I very much doubt your hypthosis unless you can show me contexually where the genesis account starts being literal again or why all other instances are 24 hour periods. The simple fact is the evidience is stacked against you. If it was science it would be a law by now
"we have both done our research and have apparently come to differing conclusions."
I agree, though my theory has a lot more evidience based on context thus I'd be inclined to take my theory
"thus will not allow myself to force my own personal interpretation of God's word on any other person."
If truth be told I actually came to this point of view AFTER studying.
True. I was hoping you'd try and find any of the 700 or so in genesis (I think its around that number..not sure). What you will find is all of them are used except maybe a couple, to indicate 24 hour periods.
"But the fact that there ARE exceptions to the rule negates any insistence that it MUST be interpreted that way in Genesis 1 (or anywhere else). You may assign any likelihood you want to based on the "math" (95%, 98%, 99.999%), but it still does not add up to 100%. "
considering the context of the book of genesis (literal history) I very much doubt your hypthosis unless you can show me contexually where the genesis account starts being literal again or why all other instances are 24 hour periods. The simple fact is the evidience is stacked against you. If it was science it would be a law by now
"we have both done our research and have apparently come to differing conclusions."
I agree, though my theory has a lot more evidience based on context
thus I'd be inclined to take my theory "thus will not allow myself to force my own personal interpretation of God's word on any other person."
If truth be told I actually came to this point of view AFTER studying.
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For once I can say AMEN to your posts outspoken *LOL
ps: we cld ask our MJ brothers on just what the Hebrew meaning is in Genesis ie literal 24 hrs days or long indefinite days.
ps: we cld ask our MJ brothers on just what the Hebrew meaning is in Genesis ie literal 24 hrs days or long indefinite days.
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JohnR7
Well-Known Member
That is not true. Yowm is used more often in Genesis NOT to mean a literal 24 hour day. It can mean a 24 hour day. But it can also mean up to 1000 years.
What is rare in the bible would be for a day to be more than 1000 years. But it is very common for a yowm to be a period of time up to 1000 years. As it would appear that at first a life time was 1000 years. So that man was given 1000 years worth of days, to live out his life.
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JohnR7
Well-Known Member
1st April 2003 at 11:21 PM Outspoken said this in Post #1
any place in the OT where the words used in the genesis account are used for anything other then a literal day and a literal night (ie rough 24 hour periods, etc..). Thanks.
Genesis 1:5b And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Here is the first passage where "day" is used in a way that does not mean a literal 24 hour day. How many more do you want?
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LewisWildermuth
Senior Veteran
9th April 2003 at 09:46 PM Outspoken said this in Post #14
considering the context of the book of genesis (literal history) I very much doubt your hypthosis unless you can show me contexually where the genesis account starts being literal again or why all other instances are 24 hour periods. The simple fact is the evidience is stacked against you. If it was science it would be a law by now
Can you show me where in Genesis it even starts to be literal history?
When I was following the Biblical Archeological Review it seemed that most of the work they did pointed to Genesis being a rather exaggerated tail with only a few events even coming close to happening the way that it was stated in the Bible.
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"Genesis 1:5b And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Here is the first passage where "day" is used in a way that does not mean a literal 24 hour day. How many more do you want?"
No, here it is a literal 24 hour period. You cannot use the passage in question to prove your point. Try again.
"Yowm is used more often in Genesis NOT to mean a literal 24 hour day."
No, you are wrong. Look for yourself. Its used 99% of the time to mean a literal 24 hour period.
"Show me one place in the OT where the word "die" is used in a spiritual sense."
They didn't die physical, so spiritually is all that's left. You also need to read romans.
"Can you show me where in Genesis it even starts to be literal history?"
Sure. Genesis 1:1 is very literal, thus it stays literal. We dont' see a change at all in context.
Here is the first passage where "day" is used in a way that does not mean a literal 24 hour day. How many more do you want?"
No, here it is a literal 24 hour period. You cannot use the passage in question to prove your point. Try again.
"Yowm is used more often in Genesis NOT to mean a literal 24 hour day."
No, you are wrong. Look for yourself. Its used 99% of the time to mean a literal 24 hour period.
"Show me one place in the OT where the word "die" is used in a spiritual sense."
They didn't die physical, so spiritually is all that's left. You also need to read romans.
"Can you show me where in Genesis it even starts to be literal history?"
Sure. Genesis 1:1 is very literal, thus it stays literal. We dont' see a change at all in context.
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