Stem Cell Research

[TheReasoner]

The difference is that experimentation causes more pain than just killing.

Bundles of cells don't have the capacity for pain.

Depends on how well developed they are. I'm still a bundle of cells. And I do have the capacity for pain.

If we experiment on them because they feel no pain, then what about comatose people? People who are brain-dead? There are plenty of those around. Quite a few without much family or friends to speak of. Drug abusers for example. You don't have to die of an OD. You could become a vegetable. Should they be experimented upon? Lives could be saved by it, after all.

If you consider a fertilized human egg cell human, then I don't really see how you can justify purposefully doing this to them, without raising certain pretty essential ethical questions.

 

[nitecrawlur]

How ethical would it be to let your child die to a disease that could be curable with the research of stem cells?

I have two kids and I would without question kill hundreds of embryos to save their lives.

The way you conservatives are talking, you would rather save the lives of senseless, emotionless creatures who are unaware of their existance than save your childs life.

The information that can be gathered from this research will redeem its lack of morality with lives saved in the future.

 

[TheReasoner]

How ethical would it be to let your child die to a disease that could be curable with the research of stem cells?

I have two kids and I would without question kill hundreds of embryos to save their lives.

The way you conservatives are talking, you would rather save the lives of senseless, emotionless creatures who are unaware of their existance than save your childs life.

The information that can be gathered from this research will redeem itself with lives saved in the future.

Personally, I am not saying either or. I am just trying to put some sense into this debate. Both sides have very valid arguments, and I think they both need to be recognized - and debated. Not just bashed.

 

[MoonlessNight]

The information that can be gathered from this research will redeem its lack of morality with lives saved in the future.

In the end? Nothing ends, Adrian.

 

[cantata]

Depends on how well developed they are. I'm still a bundle of cells. And I do have the capacity for pain.

To the best of my knowledge, embryos used for stem cell research do not suffer any more as a consequence of being used for that research. Their lack of nerve endings, or a brain to process pain information, attests to that. Besides, if you have no qualms about swatting a fly then I wouldn't worry too much about the embryos used for research.

If we experiment on them because they feel no pain, then what about comatose people? People who are brain-dead? There are plenty of those around. Quite a few without much family or friends to speak of. Drug abusers for example. You don't have to die of an OD. You could become a vegetable. Should they be experimented upon? Lives could be saved by it, after all.

If you consider a fertilized human egg cell human, then I don't really see how you can justify purposefully doing this to them, without raising certain pretty essential ethical questions.

If you want my serious opinion, the only reason that it would be inadvisable to experiment on a permanently comatose person, whom you are certain cannot feel anything, and who has no family or friends would be that knowledge of such experimentation would cause a public outcry and a culture of fear. That, and it's very unlikely that you could know for certain that the person would never wake up, that they were unable to feel anything, or that a family member or friend would never appear. It's fine in the hypothetical, but a situation where the risks were low enough to justify it is simply too unlikely ever to make such a practice feasible.

Does that answer your question? I think my beliefs are consistent.

 

[clarksided]

Jesus loves the little embryos,
all the little embryos of the world!
Be they useless or otherwise trite
they are precious in his sight
and he'll put a cap in you
for any attempted use
of them as stem cells;
have fun in hells!

 

[nitecrawlur]

Jesus loves the little embryos,
all the little embryos of the world!
Be they useless or otherwise trite
they are precious in his sight
and he'll put a cap in you
for any attempted use
of them as stem cells;
have fun in hells!

Oh, yeah...right.
Jesus loves me
Jesus loves you
whoopty doo

 

[NeTrips]

FYI - please be careful using the term stem cell research in place of ebryonic or adult - stem cell research.

Most folks have no problem with adult stem cell research or treatments - one being bone marrow transplantation (adult stem cell treatment), the other being ebryonic stem cell research which is very controversial.

You may be arguing against yourself as some here have done already.

 

[nitecrawlur]

FYI - please be careful using the term stem cell research in place of ebryonic or adult - stem cell research.

Most folks have no problem with adult stem cell research or treatments - one being bone marrow transplantation (adult stem cell treatment), the other being ebryonic stem cell research which is very controversial.

You may be arguing against yourself as some here have done already.

When I started this debate, I was refering to embryonic. Shame on me for not specifying.

It is far from contraversial and all these holy people will realize that when they or their loved ones lives depend on its discoveries to save their lives.

I made this point previously, I'll do it again.

What would say if your faced with the situation of dieing or using technology and medical knowledge founded on the research of embryonic stem cell research? Would you deny it based on a moral decision? or would be a logical, reasonable and smart person and use it's advantages?

And why has no one answered this question yet?

Maybe because anyone who thinks it's morally wrong knows they would accept to save their own hide. And then thank God for saving their lives no less. Why not thank science since God's morals were against the procedure in the first place.

 

[NeTrips]

What would say if your faced with the situation of dieing or using technology and medical knowledge founded on the research of embryonic stem cell research? Would you deny it based on a moral decision? or would be a logical, reasonable and smart person and use it's advantages?

I would say no for myself or my children. I do not place my life in higher regard than any other human, which is what I personally consider an embrio to be. To date though, this is purely hypothetical since there are no life saving treatments that I am aware of soley based on embryonic stem cell research.

The latter question is quite misleading since being a logical, reasonable, and smart person does not require the exclusion of those with religious convictions. Some may claim the inverse is more accurate, but not I.

If i may ask you a question: Why is there such a demand for taxpayer funding for embryonic stem cell research?

If it were so promising and could be the basis for many dramatic treatments, I'd think there would be investors flocking to support it in hopes of extraordinary financial gain... Yet the debate is mainly over the need for public funding.

 

[Braunwyn]

When I started this debate, I was refering to embryonic. Shame on me for not specifying.

I'm sure most will assume as much.

 

[clarksided]

I'm sure all those embyros will thank you when you see them in heaven.

Actually I'm not, because what a stupid premise.

 

[nitecrawlur]

I would say no for myself or my children. I do not place my life in higher regard than any other human, which is what I personally consider an embrio to be. To date though, this is purely hypothetical since there are no life saving treatments that I am aware of soley based on embryonic stem cell research.

The latter question is quite misleading since being a logical, reasonable, and smart person does not require the exclusion of those with religious convictions. Some may claim the inverse is more accurate, but not I.

If i may ask you a question: Why is there such a demand for taxpayer funding for embryonic stem cell research?

If it were so promising and could be the basis for many dramatic treatments, I'd think there would be investors flocking to support it in hopes of extraordinary financial gain... Yet the debate is mainly over the need for public funding.

Well, I am happy that I am not your child if life saving treatments were to come of this research and I hope that if you don't already have kids, that they never lay eyes on this debate.

I on the other do hold both my kids lives as well as mine and my wifes life at a higher priority than others. And if another person dieing means my child or wife will live I would jump on that chance without thinking, not to say I wouldn't be morally challanged, but I feel confident that would be my choice. And I would happily accept any consequences that follow.

There is most likely a high demand for tax support on this subject since most investors fear their image will be blemished for supporting an "immoral" act. I call it immoral only because religion makes up a very high percentage of the world THEY call it immoral. I call it progressive.

 

[NeTrips]

Well, I am happy that I am not your child if life saving treatments were to come of this research and I hope that if you don't already have kids, that they never lay eyes on this debate.

I've been blessed with five kids actually, and the oldest and her husband are members here as well. But I understand how some are embarrased by what they post, it's the nature of message boards.

I on the other do hold both my kids lives as well as mine and my wifes life at a higher priority than others. And if another person dieing means my child or wife will live I would jump on that chance without thinking, not to say I wouldn't be morally challanged, but I feel confident that would be my choice. And I would happily accept any consequences that follow.

There is most likely a high demand for tax support on this subject since most investors fear their image will be blemished for supporting an "immoral" act. I call it immoral only because religion makes up a very high percentage of the world THEY call it immoral. I call it progressive.

so you also do not believe in even the secular versions of the golden rule? Would you allow another to take the life of your child to save the life of their own? If not, your belief that others should die for your family but not yours for theirs sounds rather hypocritical....

 

[nitecrawlur]

I've been blessed with five kids actually, and the oldest and her husband are members here as well. But I understand how some are embarrased by what they post, it's the nature of message boards.


so you also do not believe in even the secular versions of the golden rule? Would you allow another to take the life of your child to save the life of their own? If not, your belief that others should die for your family but not yours for theirs sounds rather hypocritical....

I would not allow that happen, but I would hold no grudge on them for it.

I hold priority on my family above all others, as I would expect of them on me and my own.

 

[lawtonfogle]

The difference is that experimentation causes more pain than just killing.

Bundles of cells don't have the capacity for pain.

Depends upon how one defines pain. It has been shown that single cell organisms will remove themselves from some harmful environments. Can this be due to pain? Maybe, it depends upon how you define it.

 

[lawtonfogle]

How ethical would it be to let your child die to a disease that could be curable with the research of stem cells?

I have two kids and I would without question kill hundreds of embryos to save their lives.

The way you conservatives are talking, you would rather save the lives of senseless, emotionless creatures who are unaware of their existance than save your childs life.

The information that can be gathered from this research will redeem its lack of morality with lives saved in the future.

How ethical would it be to let your children, who are on their way to becoming productive members of society, die of a disease which could have been cured had we only researched the cure on non-productive members of society?

 

[TheReasoner]

I feel the whole 'embryo' debate is moot. At least when it comes to stem cell research.
One can extract stem cells from living adults. Bone marrow, fat, and other things can yield good stem cells.

 

[cantata]

Depends upon how one defines pain. It has been shown that single cell organisms will remove themselves from some harmful environments. Can this be due to pain? Maybe, it depends upon how you define it.

I wouldn't call it pain. Pain is a sensation. I very much doubt that there is any sort of consciousness in a bundle of cells, and consciousness is required to experience pain.

But in any case, if you did decide this could be regarded as a pain response, would you then conclude that it's necessary to protect the rights of single-cell organisms?

 

[lawtonfogle]

Well, I am happy that I am not your child if life saving treatments were to come of this research and I hope that if you don't already have kids, that they never lay eyes on this debate.

I on the other do hold both my kids lives as well as mine and my wifes life at a higher priority than others. And if another person dieing means my child or wife will live I would jump on that chance without thinking, not to say I wouldn't be morally challanged, but I feel confident that would be my choice. And I would happily accept any consequences that follow.

There is most likely a high demand for tax support on this subject since most investors fear their image will be blemished for supporting an "immoral" act. I call it immoral only because religion makes up a very high percentage of the world THEY call it immoral. I call it progressive.

I think it really depends upon who the other is also (by "it really depends" I am referring to if others think it is right or wrong). Who here would feel really bad about attacking (and thus maybe killing) someone who broke into their house and was planning to kill them to leave no witnesses. What about shooting someone who was about to rape one of your children?

I would say that each person will have their own limits, and hopefully, they will never need to discover them.