Stem Cell Research

[Phred]

I know that I am not God, but I do know what His Church teaches.

You do? Since there are over 30,000 sects of Christianity alone are you also telling me that you KNOW all those other people are wrong? Not to mention the Jews, Muslims, Hindus and Raelians...

Pride: In Christianity, pride (or vanity) is the excessive belief in one's own abilities that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is listed as one of the seven deadly sins, as superbia.

You know what you believe... nothing more.

 

[Phred]

Difference is that the person agreeing to be an organ donor is dying or will be dead regardless if they take their organs or not.

Difference is that an embryo is not a person.

 

[butterfoot]

Difference is that an embryo is not a person.

In your definition.

-cw

 

[Archivist]

In your definition.

-cw

I would tend to agree with Phred as I see an embryo as a potential human being, but not an actual human being. In any event, the point is moot because we are dealing with embryos that will be destroyed. Why not make use the stem cells in ways that may save lives rather than just flushing them down the drain.

 

[butterfoot]

I would tend to agree with Phred as I see an embryo as a potential human being, but not an actual human being. In any event, the point is moot because we are dealing with embryos that will be destroyed. Why not make use the stem cells in ways that may save lives rather than just flushing them down the drain.

Fine but why must the Government pay for the research why can't these rich drug companies pay for it. Its like we already pay for their medication twice. We as taxpayers paid for their research to find the drug then we have to pay to be able to have access to the medication too.


-cw

 

[Seaside Mists]

Fine but why must the Government pay for the research why can't these rich drug companies pay for it. Its like we already pay for their medication twice. We as taxpayers paid for their research to find the drug then we have to pay to be able to have access to the medication too.


-cw

And yet with all that paying in we still don't come close to paying for the amount of research and work that went into said drug.

 

[Phred]

Fine but why must the Government pay for the research why can't these rich drug companies pay for it. Its like we already pay for their medication twice. We as taxpayers paid for their research to find the drug then we have to pay to be able to have access to the medication too.

Because your ignorance isn't a reason to do anything. Why should drug companies pay for research in an area that doesn't involve drugs?

 

[butterfoot]

Because your ignorance isn't a reason to do anything. Why should drug companies pay for research in an area that doesn't involve drugs?

Are you saying that these companies will not profit immensily from the research that the U.S. Government paid for. I guess they are going to give the stem cells they use to help people away at cost right. I doubt it.


-cw

 

[Archivist]

Fine but why must the Government pay for the research why can't these rich drug companies pay for it. Its like we already pay for their medication twice. We as taxpayers paid for their research to find the drug then we have to pay to be able to have access to the medication too.


-cw

Yes, but remember that the US government is probably the #1 source of money for all medical research. This would include research that is directly funded by the National Institute of Health and indirectly through grants to Universities and research hospitals.

Waht would drugs cost--if they even existed--without government funding?

 

[Harlan Norris]

Lets abandon Bush for the moment. He is a politition and therefore does what he does for personal gain. The point I'm going to attempt to make is that stem cell research, comes from our desire to circumvent judgement, by living forever, pain and trouble free. This is the promise of heaven. But we want it here and now. I believe that as Christians we should avoid anything that sacrifices life for pleasure. My concern is that aborted fetuses could become a commodity of great value...

 

[Monica02]

Being a organ donor, yes, I give permission to doctors to remove my organs to give to other members of society who are more beneficial to society than I am in whatever condition I'm in to warrant my organs being donated.

Stem cell donation is not any different than a person agreeing to be an organ donor. You are, of course, aware that people who's organs are donated are alive at the time their organs are harvested, right?

Are you willing to be killed before your time for your organs?

 

[stray bullet]

which appears to be the word of man.

i never thought christians would be against helping people and curing diseases.

The Church hardly speaks only the word of man.

Christians aren't against helping people and curing diseases- human embryonic stem cell research is pointless. Researchers of HESC are more than happy to make it appear that advances and cures hinge on using and only using HESCs. The fact is, they don't.

The real cures are in human adult stem cell research. If one wishes to study developmental processes, then animal embryos could be used, as developmental processes are highly conserved.

I'm against the needless slaughter of human beings.

 

[stray bullet]

So why the debate? It's simple... religious reasons. Bush and his ilk believe that a human receives its soul at conception. Thus, every embryo is as human as any 40-year old car salesman. So... because Bush believes this everyone must live with the results. If you believe this then you're forcing your religious belief upon everyone else.

If you kill someone because you don't believe it is immoral, how is that not forcing your religious belief on someone?

Tell you what. If you believe this so strongly you are free not to partake in any stem-cell based treatments. You can refuse to let your bodily parts be used in any manner relating to this issue. You can even stop trying to get pregnant with medical help. But what makes you think you have a right to stop me from doing the opposite?

.

I'm fine with stem-cell based treatments. But what human embryo researchers try to do is deceive people on this issue, blurring human embryo stem cell research with all stem cell research... trying to convince people only *their* research holds the answers.

 

[Seaside Mists]

Are you willing to be killed before your time for your organs?

I say again, yes, if my life is in a condition where I will no longer be able to function, I'd be happy to donate my organs. If my organs are harvested, I will be alive, in a state where I am considered unrecoverable. Just as an embryo which is being used for stem cell research is not going to be used for a pregnancy, and will never be of any use.

 

[stray bullet]

Religious dogma is more important than saving lives

Stem cell research is super awesome. I think when we develop cures for diseases from it people will wonder why there was such a strong opposition.

You are right, stem cell research is great- but please, let's not refer to human embryonic stem cell research as "stem cell research".

 

[Monica02]

I say again, yes, if my life is in a condition where I will no longer be able to function, I'd be happy to donate my organs. If my organs are harvested, I will be alive, in a state where I am considered unrecoverable. Just as an embryo which is being used for stem cell research is not going to be used for a pregnancy, and will never be of any use.

Do you consider the only value of a human life to be one of utility to society?

 

[Seaside Mists]

Do you consider the only value of a human life to be one of utility to society?

Of course not.

However, an embryo which is used for stem cell research is going to be destroyed anyway. Even though that embryo will never be born, through stem cell research, it can still manage to help society and possibly create a legacy that saves lives. What a beautiful opportunity to give anybody; the ability to live for generations. That is why stem cell research is exactly like organ donation... It is a chance for us to leave a legacy for ourselves and save many people's lives, so we can help people long after we've departed.

 

[Monica02]

Which has always been proof positive to me of how sometimes man can be so backwards from what God believes.

The Church's official position is that people should only get pregnant through consentual sex within the confines of the marriage, and any conception that isn't the direct result of sex is not approved by the Church.

That, of course, is in DIRECT conflict with one of the main beliefs of the church.

The immaculate conception of Jesus to Mary.

So, in theory by the Church's own decree, the conception of Jesus was not in line with the Church.

The Immaculate Conception refers to the conception of Mary, not Jesus. Mary was conceived in the normal way.

 

[trunks2k]

Are you willing to be killed before your time for your organs?

This is disengnuous.

In regards to embryos that are left over from artificial insemnation, We can't keep them frozen forever in some hope that they will get used for artificial insemeniation because:

1. They aren't viable forever, and supply exceeds demand.
2. The "parents" of the embryo need to give permission to allow the embryo to be donated. Not all "parents" give that permission.

So there are going to be a large amount of embryos in which we have only the following two choices:

1. Destroy them
2. Use them for research for treatments that can save millions upon millions of lives.

What do you choose?

 

[Monica02]

This is disengnuous.

In regards to embryos that are left over from artificial insemnation, We can't keep them frozen forever in some hope that they will get used for artificial insemeniation because:

1. They aren't viable forever, and supply exceeds demand.
2. The "parents" of the embryo need to give permission to allow the embryo to be donated. Not all "parents" give that permission.

So there are going to be a large amount of embryos in which we have only the following two choices:

1. Destroy them
2. Use them for research for treatments that can save millions upon millions of lives.

What do you choose?

Let them die a natural death and create no more. IVF has opend a nasty can of worms.