stem cell question...

[imind]

i recently read the following...

Embryonic stem cells can only be gotten within the first two weeks. The zygote has the potential of becoming one, two, three, etc., different human beings, and as such, you must recognize that it is not a unique individual person. Rather, from your presumably religious standpoint, you could infer that the "soul" has not yet been inserted by God (my argument stems from Pope John Paul II's argument regarding a human's ontological aquisition from God).

and i wanted to get responses from others on this board. can a zygote become 1, 2, 3 different people? wouldn't it make sense then that it wouldn't have a soul yet? does this solve the problem then; is it ok to use these stem cells?

 

[selfinflikted]

I dunno about souls and all that jazz. I still can't understand the argument as to why we shouldn't be allowed to use these cells for research.

 

[CSmrw]

We are discussing eliminating research that may have saved my grandfather or grandmother from searingly painful, debilitating, humiliating deaths because we can't decide when a mythical entity enters the human cell structure. Bush: push the button. Now.

 

[selfinflikted]

We are discussing eliminating research that may have saved my grandfather or grandmother from searingly painful, debilitating, humiliating deaths because we can't decide when a mythical entity enters the human cell structure. Bush: push the button. Now.

Exactly! We should be operating in a world of FACT and not by the dictation of some "mythical entity"... this is what I can't understand... LIVES CAN BE SAVED, people. LIVES. That is a fact.

 

[CSmrw]

Serious. Bush. Button. Push. Boom. Cockroach Mystery Theater 3000

 

[Isis-Astoroth]

I'm a bit dubious on the existence of a soul, however very often I think religion tries to push itself into places where it really shouldn't be, and stem stell research, I believe, is one of those places. Stem cells aren't people, they're cells, just cells. Nothing more.

 

[Spherical Time]

That's actually a pretty good argument. If a being has yet to differentiate and can still become multiple unique individuals, how can one argue that it has a single soul?

 

[imind]

That's actually a pretty good argument. If a being has yet to differentiate and can still become multiple unique individuals, how can one argue that it has a single soul?

yes, this is what i was after for responses, and i had anticipated a larger christian audience than i've received thus far. not that i don't appeciate all of your thoughts.

i don't understand how this cannot get around the 'problematic' soul.

 

[katautumn]

Those people who talk about how embryonic stem cell research is murder need to come and live my life for a week. I act as caregiver to my Mother-in-Law who has Alzheimer's Disease. Watching someone you love die slowly in a state of fear and confusion, never knowing what challenges the next day will bring. Man, it's really difficult and heartbreaking. To think that something like stem cell research could be used to find a cure for this terrible disease, along with many others, I can't imagine why anyone would be against it. Nobody seems to care if a hundred innocent children are killed in a carpet bombing for the sake of "national security" and yet these same people would look in my eyes and tell me that medical research that could prevent and treat diseases that kill people slowly and painfully and rip families apart at the seams is tantamount to abortion and murder. I don't understand it at all.

 

[variant]

i recently read the following...

and i wanted to get responses from others on this board. can a zygote become 1, 2, 3 different people? wouldn't it make sense then that it wouldn't have a soul yet? does this solve the problem then; is it ok to use these stem cells?

Well theology is riddled with questions when actually applied to the real world. I suppose they could come up with some sort of cop out without any real reason to believe it like:

Twins share different parts of the same soul.

Or some such nonsense.

The real problem is that embryos are just small groups of human cells that are formed in the process of procreation fairly soon after a sperm and egg undergo fission to create a new organism. Like all cells, they are merely chemical machines doing what is programmed into them by the genes inside them. There is little difference between them and a cow embryo, or a fish embryo; in fact, they are more helpless (and incomplete) than a paramecium.

Assigning full human value to a group of cells that is, frankly, only human in that it can result in one given the correct conditions, seems to me frankly silly.

These cells also have the potential to become an ectopic pregnancy (pregnancy that implants in the fallopian tubes and is dangerous or deadly to the mother), or a form of cancer due to uncontrolled growth of an embryo, along with a bunch of other interesting physical phenomena, like half formed fetuses, or fetuses that form within other fetuses (which are sometimes eventually taken out and referred to properly as a sort of cyst or tumor).

Perhaps they all had souls, but frankly I don't care.

Edit: here have a look at one of these phenomina for yourself (it's kinda neat):
http://mosnews.com/news/2006/01/16/brother.shtml

 

[imind]

Those people who talk about how embryonic stem cell research is murder need to come and live my life for a week.

i watched my father die from a brain tumor that took him a short 8 months after it first began developing. i doubt stem cells could be used to fight his particular cancer, or any cancer, but i know how you feel doing what you do. i fully support stem cell research, btw, if it wasn't obvious. thanks for your input.

Perhaps they all had souls, but frankly I don't care.

i understand that you feel that way. to some this isn't an issue, and frankly i don't believe they have one at that early in life. unfortunately, others are convinced (with little scriptural support) that they do, and i'm trying to find a way around that. i do appreciate you chiming in, though, as you've provided valuable medical info that i was unaware of. its convinced me further that this research should be acceptable.

 

[akaibara]

That zygote has it's own unique set of DNA...Makes me wonder about identical twins. They have the same DNA but different personalities. I think souls and/or spirits are different than what is commonly believed, but the Bible seems rather vauge about them, so I don't know what counts as a soul and if it's our souls that make us individual...
I can't say I support stem cell research with embryos and zygotes, though.

 

[ebia]

yes, this is what i was after for responses, and i had anticipated a larger christian audience than i've received thus far.

I've asked the equivalent question numerous times on abortion/stem-cell/IVF threads and never, once got a response from the "human life begins at conception" camp. One can only assume they are afraid to discuss it.