Statues....*confused*

[InnerPhyre]

I live in an area where you can't drive a mile without seeing a Baptist church, and lately I've been noticing something that made me think. I have been told over and over again by Baptists that it's wrong for my church to have statues in it, yet I've driven by at least 3 Baptist churches today alone that had nativity scenes in them. Two were outside and had life sized statues of Joseph, Mary, Baby Jesus, shepherds, etc....another one was actually inside the church (you could see in from the outside) and the statues were each about 2 feet tall. Why is it ok to have statues of the Holy Family during Advent and not the rest of the year? This made me scratch my head. Thanks in advance for the answers.

 

[SumTinWong]

Hey innerphyre

Great observation.

I think the main difference between Baptists having statues at holiday times and the Catholic church having them at all times, is we do not offer up prayers to the people represented by the statues. That would be it. JMHO

Mind you I know the difference between worshipping idols and what you do, so i am not slamming your church.

 

[C.I. Scofield]

Great observation.

Agreed!

I think the main difference between Baptists having statues at holiday times and the Catholic church having them at all times, is we do not offer up prayers to the people represented by the statues. That would be it. JMHO

This is true, plus, we Baptist's, don't refer to the statues of Jesus, Mary, Ect... as our Sweetness, Our Holiness, Ect...

Mind you I know the difference between worshipping idols and what you do, so i am not slamming your church.

Yeah Sure buddy! Can't lie to us, we know ya! J/K!

 

[ps139]

I think the main difference between Baptists having statues at holiday times and the Catholic church having them at all times, is we do not offer up prayers to the people represented by the statues. That would be it. JMHO

Do you think that has more to do with the actual statues, or the differences between our conceptions of what it means to pray?

 

[SumTinWong]

It could be both. But from what I understand when you look at a statue or when an Orthodox looks at an icon you are both projecting to the person this statue/icon represents. This we do not do, at any time (which you know). I do know that you are not worshipping the saints at any time or anyone other than the Trinity. But in appearance, practice, and in terminology it does give many a reason to stand back, and say no thanks.

The terminology used to communicate with those who are with Jesus is in my opinion unfortunate. When we(non Catholics) say pray we see this as communication with a member of the Trinity. When you pray to saints you are actually enlisting thier help and asking them to pray for you/with you, to the Father in Jesus name of course. But the word pray in our terminology is not a universal thing. We refuse to use that word or action for anyone but God.

I know there is that huge misconception that many have on this side of the fence, and to be honest some of it has been brought to a head by the very language used in your church and the Orthodox church, and the rest is by pig headed people that don't care to learn the truth for themselves. Even if they do not agree with what you do, like myself, they can at least not perpetuate the lies.

 

[InnerPhyre]

Thanks for your answers, Bud and CI. I'd like to discuss this in more depth, so I think I'll make a thread on the subject a little later in GT. I hope you'll all come join in.

 

[SumTinWong]

Not sure what else I could add to what I have said, but I will look in and see what you have going on there

 

[Diakoneo]

I live in an area where you can't drive a mile without seeing a Baptist church, and lately I've been noticing something that made me think. I have been told over and over again by Baptists that it's wrong for my church to have statues in it, yet I've driven by at least 3 Baptist churches today alone that had nativity scenes in them. Two were outside and had life sized statues of Joseph, Mary, Baby Jesus, shepherds, etc....another one was actually inside the church (you could see in from the outside) and the statues were each about 2 feet tall. Why is it ok to have statues of the Holy Family during Advent and not the rest of the year? This made me scratch my head. Thanks in advance for the answers.

Correct me if I'm wrong but in the Catholic church aren't some statues prayed at (as opposed to prayed to). Like I've seen some Catholic folks who will go to the statue of Mary or whatnot and kneel right there and pray (whether to Mary or to God or whatever). In fact I've seen statues in Catholic churches with kneeling pads built right in front of statues (I don't know if that's common or not though). So I think the difference is in how the statue is used.. as a decoration or as ... something else.

Now if you drive by a Baptist church and see some folks out there kneeling in front of these statues.... let us know... cause then there will be a real problem and we'll all be scratching our heads...


Disclaimer - The above post contains personal opinions and personal experiences it is not meant to be the collective belief of Baptists or Non-Catholic members. It was not meant to degrade any person or persons alive or dead (or in between), nor was it's intention to insult, jest, or poke fun at any traditions or systems of belief that do not align with the posters personal belief structure/system. This is a recording.

 

[daveleau]

I agree with the last poster that it is the use of the statues rather than the presence of them. Most Baptists are not literalists in that you cannot do this or you cannot do that based on tradition or simply a hard and fast rule (an exception is that some churches disallow alcohol). Most of it is due to principle and/or intent. The principle that the people are trying to show is that Baptists believe that statues can often be misused in a idolic way (IBO - in Baptist's opinion). This is not reserved to any Christian denomination, but to all that use statues in ways that are more than for aesthetics. The use of the Nativity is to remind people of Christ and the message of Christmas. They are not intended for any other use than the celebration of Christmas, not for praying. I think ps139 was right on when he mentioned the differences in prayer. That is the main reason.

God bless,
Dave

 

[InnerPhyre]

Correct me if I'm wrong but in the Catholic church aren't some statues prayed at (as opposed to prayed to).
.

There are places to kneel in front of statues to pray, but we aren't praying at or to the statue. We used statues in much the same way the Orthodox use icons. They help to focus our minds when we're praying and convey theological truth. If I go and kneel in front of a crucifix to pray, I'm not kneeling *to* the crucifix. I'm kneeling to God and using the crucifix to help me focus on Jesus in my prayers.

 

[Diakoneo]

Yeah that's why I said "at" rather than "to"...

 

[daveleau]

Yep, I purposefully avoided stating the incorrect assumption that some use in saying that groups are praying to these. I understand the ideas that some non-Baptists hold regarding intercession. That is a major difference between different groups and Baptists, since Baptists believe that Christ is our only spiritual intercessor with other, living Christians being the saints for intercession.