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Discussion and Debate
Discussion and Debate
Physical & Life Sciences
Star Formation and why evolution is not true
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<blockquote data-quote="Chalnoth" data-source="post: 47699112" data-attributes="member: 159254"><p>There is no force that drives diffusion. None. Diffusion happens because molecules in a gas are more or less moving in random directions, and the net effect, when the gas is not being acted on by gravity, is to spread out. Gravity changes things, by generating a net attractive force. If there are enough molecules within a region, then they collapse.</p><p></p><p>Look, if your claims were right, then stars <em>could not exist</em>. And yet they do. Funny, that.</p><p></p><p>And yes, I absolutely stand by my claim that a star has greater entropy than a diffuse gas cloud of the same mass.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, gravity by itself can cause <em>vastly</em> more compression than what human engineers can do on the Earth, because gas clouds are vastly, vastly more massive than the Earth. For example, our Sun is over <em>three hundred thousand</em> times as massive as the Earth. All that weight, even if it is mostly hydrogen, adds up.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I haven't repudiated it. Just stated that it's a minor effect. It can't be the primary cause of star formation, because you need stars to have supernovae.</p><p></p><p>Yes, interstellar gas clouds are very diffuse. But all you need is one region of the gas cloud to be ever so slightly more dense than the rest, and it will collapse into a star, provided there's enough mass. Given that there are some 400,000,000,000 stars within our own galaxy alone, total mass isn't the problem: you just need a slight disturbance to cause that mass to collapse in on itself.</p><p></p><p>And Jupiter just doesn't have enough mass to generate a fusion reaction: the pressure doesn't get high enough.</p><p></p><p>Finally, the way we infer usually star formation is by looking at the ages of stars. We don't necessarily look for <em>current</em> star formation, but <em>recent</em> star formation. When you have a star-forming region, the stars tend to form of all sorts of different masses. The low-mass stars can last for billions of years, while the high-mass stars will only last for tens to hundreds of millions (basically, the higher mass allows for increased pressure, which in turn causes the nuclear furnaces at their centers to burn much faster). So when we see a region where there's lots of big, massive stars, we know that region recently underwent some star formation.</p><p></p><p>And, just as we would expect, the strongest star forming regions are typically in the presence of interactions. For example, when two galaxies collide, the collisions of the gas clouds cause many stars to form.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chalnoth, post: 47699112, member: 159254"] There is no force that drives diffusion. None. Diffusion happens because molecules in a gas are more or less moving in random directions, and the net effect, when the gas is not being acted on by gravity, is to spread out. Gravity changes things, by generating a net attractive force. If there are enough molecules within a region, then they collapse. Look, if your claims were right, then stars [I]could not exist[/I]. And yet they do. Funny, that. And yes, I absolutely stand by my claim that a star has greater entropy than a diffuse gas cloud of the same mass. Yes, gravity by itself can cause [I]vastly[/I] more compression than what human engineers can do on the Earth, because gas clouds are vastly, vastly more massive than the Earth. For example, our Sun is over [I]three hundred thousand[/I] times as massive as the Earth. All that weight, even if it is mostly hydrogen, adds up. I haven't repudiated it. Just stated that it's a minor effect. It can't be the primary cause of star formation, because you need stars to have supernovae. Yes, interstellar gas clouds are very diffuse. But all you need is one region of the gas cloud to be ever so slightly more dense than the rest, and it will collapse into a star, provided there's enough mass. Given that there are some 400,000,000,000 stars within our own galaxy alone, total mass isn't the problem: you just need a slight disturbance to cause that mass to collapse in on itself. And Jupiter just doesn't have enough mass to generate a fusion reaction: the pressure doesn't get high enough. Finally, the way we infer usually star formation is by looking at the ages of stars. We don't necessarily look for [I]current[/I] star formation, but [I]recent[/I] star formation. When you have a star-forming region, the stars tend to form of all sorts of different masses. The low-mass stars can last for billions of years, while the high-mass stars will only last for tens to hundreds of millions (basically, the higher mass allows for increased pressure, which in turn causes the nuclear furnaces at their centers to burn much faster). So when we see a region where there's lots of big, massive stars, we know that region recently underwent some star formation. And, just as we would expect, the strongest star forming regions are typically in the presence of interactions. For example, when two galaxies collide, the collisions of the gas clouds cause many stars to form. [/QUOTE]
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