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Awesome!
How about this:
MJs believe the Torah of Moses is the same that Yeshua kept. Yeshua instructed us to ‘Follow Me’, therefore we leave it to each individual to practice Torah (halacha) in a way that he/she believes Yeshua did.
If we say it like this, no one can tell someone Torah is invalid, AND no one can judge anyone on how they keep Torah.How about this:
MJs believe the Torah of Moses is the halacha that Yeshua practiced. Yeshua instructed us to ‘Follow Me’, therefore we leave it to each individual to practice Torah (halacha) in a way that he/she believes Yeshua did.
If we say it like this, no one can tell someone Torah is invalid, AND no one can judge anyone on how they keep Torah.
Our foundational unity would be that MJs keep Torah for the love of God, not for salvation, just as Yeshua kept Torah for the love of God, and not for salvation.
Welcome to the Messianic Judaism forum! This forum is a gathering place for both Jews and Gentiles who have come to believe in Messiah Yeshua and wish to follow in His footsteps in worshiping the one True G-d His way, in Spirit and Truth, which brings Life.*Welcome....
This sounds good!!If we say it like this, no one can tell someone Torah is invalid, AND no one can judge anyone on how they keep Torah.
Our foundational unity would be that MJs keep Torah for the love of God, not for salvation, just as Yeshua kept Torah for the love of God, and not for salvation.
Would the truth be that:
1. MJs believe and practice: The Torah of Moses is the same that Yeshua kept and He has instructed us to ‘Follow me’
2. BUT but we allow that not all Jews and Gentiles agree with this, so we don't force anyone to keep the Torah of Moses if they don't understand that this is what Yeshua lived and taught?
So perhaps we could change the 2nd statement to: We DON'T INSIST (FORCE) all Jews and Gentiles must keep Torah, IF THEY DON'T BELIEVE STATEMENT #1: The Torah of Moses is the same that Yeshua kept and He has instructed us to ‘Follow me’
SUGGESTED EDIT
We believe the Torah of Moses is the same that Yeshua kept and He has instructed us to ‘Follow HIM’ (Matthew 16:24, 1 John 2:6).
But we allow that others may not see this truth, and for this reason do not force Torah on all Jews and Gentiles.
Psalm 19:8(7)-10(9) (CJB)
8(7) The Torah of Adonai is perfect, restoring the inner person. The instruction of Adonai is sure, making wise the thoughtless.
9(8) The precepts of Adonai are right, rejoicing the heart. The mitzvah of Adonai is pure, enlightening the eyes.
10(9) The fear of Adonai is clean, enduring forever. The rulings of Adonai are true, they are righteous altogether,
Shouldn't it be understood that Paul (Romans 8:4) was never against the Torah of Adonai.
Romans 8:4 (CJB)
so that the just requirement of the Torah might be fulfilled in us who do not run our lives according to what our old nature wants but according to what the Spirit wants.
Is, "all Jews and Gentiles" (SOP language) referring just to Messianic Jews and Messianic Gentiles or all Jews and Gentiles?
The statement of what we believe is: "That The Torah of Moses is the same that Yeshua kept and He has instructed us to ‘Follow me’." This is implying that following Yeshua involves keeping the Torah just like He did. Therefore to say that only some believers, "not all Jews and Gentiles", are called to keep Torah is the same as saying that only some believers are called to follow Yeshua. So the SOP is not clear whether this MJ sub-forum believes that keeping the Torah is part of Christianity in general, or just a fringe option. I thought the purpose of this whole SOP business was to settle that aspect in particular. I'm not trying to push what I believe, I'm just saying that the wording isn't decisive, so the arguments could just flare up again.
I know I thought so too. Anyone have issues with Truthfrees paragraph here:More succinct! Great!
I think that is pretty good.I know I thought so too. Anyone have issues with Truthfrees paragraph here:
MJs believe the Torah of Moses is the same that Yeshua kept. Yeshua instructed us to ‘Follow Me’, therefore we leave it to each individual to practice Torah (halacha) in a way that he/she believes Yeshua did.
I know I thought so too. Anyone have issues with Truthfrees paragraph here:
MJs believe the Torah of Moses is the same that Yeshua kept. Yeshua instructed us to ‘Follow Me’, therefore we leave it to each individual to practice Torah (halacha) in a way that he/she believes Yeshua did.
Literature: While we believe that the Bible is the Word of G-d, we also believe that it can be educational and informative to study other Jewish Literature such as the Mishnah Torah, Talmud etc. We believe as Yeshua taught that this does not overrule the Torah, nor is on equal basis with Torah, but it can be used to clarify ambiguous passages in the Bible.
What does this sound like for the re-wording of the first part of our sop?[/QUOTE]Welcome to the Messianic Judaism forum! This forum is a gathering place for both Jews and Gentiles who have come to believe in Messiah Yeshua and wish to follow in His footsteps in worshiping the one True G-d His way, in Spirit and Truth, which brings Life.*
We believe:
- First and foremost that Yeshua is the promised Messiah to Israel and to the nations.
- Messianic Judaism is a sect of Judaism that is the fulfillment of the Jewish Scriptures.
- The Torah of Moses is the halacha Yeshua practiced.
- Yeshua instructed us to ‘Follow Me’, therefore we leave it to each individual to practice Torah (halacha) in a way he/she believes Yeshua did.
- Yeshua practiced Torah for the love of G-d, not for salvation, therefore we do the same.
- The books of the Bible (Genesis to Revelation) are ordained by G-d to be His word to us.
- Jew and Gentile are equal in Messiah because they fear G-d, love His commandments, and keep them.
If we say it like this, no one can tell someone Torah is invalid, AND no one can judge anyone on how they keep Torah.
Our foundational unity would be that MJs keep Torah for the love of God, not for salvation, just as Yeshua kept Torah for the love of God, and not for salvation.
This sounds good!!
AWESOME!I have just read the newly highlighted SOP...
I am sure I'll be shouted at but, please, can we at least have the English corrected in the SOP that says DUEL ATTENDANCE (as in 'fighting with swords or guns'), by replacing it with DUAL ATTENDANCE (as in 'attending more than one place')?
We have enough battles on here without suggesting that we have duels, as they did in the 19th century, at dawn with swords or pistols!
BTW - I have mentioned this before but it has not been taken on board!
The majority of MJ members consider the "Torah (of Moses)" as equivalent with the word "Law" as referenced in the Gospels. The point being that the primary difference between Christianity and Messianic Judaism is that the majority of Christendom considers the Ten Commandments to have been "nailed to the cross" and no longer a lawful requirement among most Christian denominations. Whereas, it's my understanding Messianic Judaism believes that in order to truly Love G-d with all your being and love your neighbor as yourself one will have a strong desire to obey the Ten Commandments from a heart of loving-kindness (chesed) and a loving relationship (avaha) with Adonai.*It's a terrible practice to translate ever instance of νόμος with the word "Torah." That leads to terrible misunderstandings.
I agree with Yonah for this reason.It's a terrible practice to translate every instance of νόμος with the word "Torah." That leads to terrible misunderstandings.
This is generally agreed upon.It is generally understood that the "Law" is referring to what most Messianics (MJs) can [hopefully] agree is generally understood to mean the "Torah of Moses" aka the First Five Books of the Hebrew Bible.
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