St. Paul Demonstrating Sola Scriptura In Scripture

[razeontherock]

You didn't answer Narnia's question. How did the Bereans know from the OT Scriptures alone (which is all that they had) that Jesus Christ was the person that the OT talked about? If it is so obvious, it should be easy to lay out for her.

You're really talking about everything Jesus covered on the road to Emmaus. I wouldn't be one to call that either obvious or easy ...

And yet the wise men from the East also testify this was knowable.

 

[Rick Otto]

How did the Bereans know from the OT Scriptures alone (which is all that they had) that Jesus Christ was the person that the OT talked about? If it is so obvious, it should be easy to lay out for her.

First of all, it wasn't all they had, per se. It was all they had to verify Paul's good news (the gospel). It is only obvious to those who are saved. It is foolishness to those who are perishing.

 

[Rick Otto]

That would be the scriptures of the Old Testament that pointed to Jesus.

Sounds like you found it obvious too. God is good.

 

[narnia59]

You didn't answer Narnia's question. How did the Bereans know from the OT Scriptures alone (which is all that they had) that Jesus Christ was the person that the OT talked about? If it is so obvious, it should be easy to lay out for her.

From reading the rather cryptic responses, evidently it's not that easy at all.

 

[Montalban]

From reading the rather cryptic responses, evidently it's not that easy at all.

And Thessalonians rejected Paul's message

The Jews as a whole had the same scripture (OT) as Paul was using, and they didn't see Paul's message.

 

[Rick Otto]

Whole orthodox Christian sects reject each other with mostly the same canons.
Where's the outrage?

 

[Montalban]

that old fallacy!

 

[Rick Otto]

Those ancient blinders!

 

[Standing Up]

You didn't answer Narnia's question. How did the Bereans know from the OT Scriptures alone (which is all that they had) that Jesus Christ was the person that the OT talked about? If it is so obvious, it should be easy to lay out for her.

Let's all agree on this. The apostles did speak first and then wrote it down.

Narnia already laid out some prophecies of Messiah that the apostles relayed as fulfilled (born in Bethlehem, of a virgin).

There are many more. Peter and others used 'won't let Your Holy One see decay' as proof of the resurrection.

So, along come eyewitnesses who claim Jesus Christ of Nazareth fulfilled all the prophecies. THe Bereans went to the OT and searched to see if indeed what was claimed was prophesied and fulfilled. As Rick pointed out, some verified, some believed. To the others it was foolishness.

 

[razeontherock]

From reading the rather cryptic responses, evidently it's not that easy at all.

I wouldn't say that the road to Emmaus is cryptic, but I wouldn't say that this answer is easy, either. One could spend years in study and still come up close to empty, I imagine. I'm just saddened that for all the wonderful teaching on the Gospels themselves that RC has, this is apparently an entire area you overlook.(?) I've been impressed that you actually know Him, and I'm just shocked that this subject is foreign to you; that makes it difficult to know where to begin.

 

[razeontherock]

The Jews as a whole had the same scripture (OT) as Paul was using, and they didn't see Paul's message.

Tautology

 

[narnia59]

I wouldn't say that the road to Emmaus is cryptic, but I wouldn't say that this answer is easy, either. One could spend years in study and still come up close to empty, I imagine. I'm just saddened that for all the wonderful teaching on the Gospels themselves that RC has, this is apparently an entire area you overlook.(?) I've been impressed that you actually know Him, and I'm just shocked that this subject is foreign to you; that makes it difficult to know where to begin.

What subject? The road to Emmaus? Sola-scriptura? I'm familiar with them. It is simply your responses to my question that I find less than direct and cryptic.

From what I can tell (you can correct me if I'm wrong), you are asserting that the OT Scriptures that the Bereans had were sufficient to find salvation in Jesus Christ independent of the testimony of Paul to the person of Jesus. True or not?

 

[narnia59]

Let's all agree on this. The apostles did speak first and then wrote it down.

Narnia already laid out some prophecies of Messiah that the apostles relayed as fulfilled (born in Bethlehem, of a virgin).

There are many more. Peter and others used 'won't let Your Holy One see decay' as proof of the resurrection.

So, along come eyewitnesses who claim Jesus Christ of Nazareth fulfilled all the prophecies. THe Bereans went to the OT and searched to see if indeed what was claimed was prophesied and fulfilled. As Rick pointed out, some verified, some believed. To the others it was foolishness.

So were the Bereans sola-scripturists in your view?

 

[Standing Up]

So were the Bereans sola-scripturists in your view?

Yes, in the sense of confirming what was being claimed. They searched OT scripture. What'd you have in mind?

 

[narnia59]

Yes, in the sense of confirming what was being claimed. They searched OT scripture. What'd you have in mind?

Searching the scriptures affirming that what somebody says is in scripture is in fact there is not sola-scriptura.

Sola-scriptura professes that the Scriptures are sufficient -- contain all that is necessary to know of salvation. Nothing additional is needed.

That would mean that if the Bereans were sola-scriptura the OT scriptures were all that were necessary for their salvation, and nothing Paul has to say about the person of Jesus Christ adds anything essential.

 

[Standing Up]

Searching the scriptures affirming that what somebody says is in scripture is in fact there is not sola-scriptura.

Sola-scriptura professes that the Scriptures are sufficient -- contain all that is necessary to know of salvation. Nothing additional is needed.

That would mean that if the Bereans were sola-scriptura the OT scriptures were all that were necessary for their salvation, and nothing Paul has to say about the person of Jesus Christ adds anything essential.

Not sure what you're saying. The OT prophesied of Messiah. Emmanuel. Along comes Paul saying the OT is fulfilled in Christ Jesus. The Bereans, like many others, were anticipating its fulfillment. But they also wanted to check. How? It is written.

Born of a virgin - yes.
In Bethlehem - yes.
Didn't see decay - yes.
Etc.

So, not sure your point. You may be confusing me with others. You realize the OT prophesied of Messiah, right?

 

[Montalban]

Tautology

There was none in that post. At best you're suggesting that the post itself is a repeat of a previous idea, which isn't a tautology itself.

The Jews had the same scripture. They didn't all 'see it'.

Acts 15 shows the Apostles understood that certain Jewish practices were no longer valid.

 

[Montalban]

Did the Bereans understand from OT scripture that circumcision was no longer valid?

 

[narnia59]

Not sure what you're saying. The OT prophesied of Messiah. Emmanuel. Along comes Paul saying the OT is fulfilled in Christ Jesus. The Bereans, like many others, were anticipating its fulfillment. But they also wanted to check. How? It is written.

Born of a virgin - yes.
In Bethlehem - yes.
Didn't see decay - yes.
Etc.

So, not sure your point. You may be confusing me with others. You realize the OT prophesied of Messiah, right?

Yes, I realize the OT's prophesied of the Messiah.

My point is this:

1) Sola scriptura relies on the assertion that Scripture is sufficient for all things necessary for salvation.
2) People are claiming the Bereans are an example of sola-scriptura
3) The only Scriptures the Bereans had was the OT
4) If 1, 2, and 3 are correct -- that means that the OT scriptures in themselves are sufficient for all things necessary for salvation, and the testimony of Paul as to the person of Jesus Christ having fulfilled those is not essential or necessary for the Bereans.

Either
1) The OT Scriptures are sufficient for salvation rendering the NT unnecessary

OR

2) The Bereans also required information outside of Scripture -- the oral information Paul provides about the person of Jesus Christ and how this person fulfilled the Scriptures (later recorded in the NT). By accepting the oral testimony of Paul (information not found in Scripture), they can't be seen as an example of sola-scriptura at all.

 

[narnia59]

Not sure what you're saying. The OT prophesied of Messiah. Emmanuel. Along comes Paul saying the OT is fulfilled in Christ Jesus. The Bereans, like many others, were anticipating its fulfillment. But they also wanted to check. How? It is written.

Born of a virgin - yes.
In Bethlehem - yes.
Didn't see decay - yes.
Etc.

So, not sure your point. You may be confusing me with others. You realize the OT prophesied of Messiah, right?

Or another way to view this....

How did the Bereans know the person Jesus Christ was born of a virgin?

How did the Bereans know the person Jesus Christ was born in Bethlehem?

How did the Bereans know the person Jesus Christ did not see decay?

Etc.

The OT merely point to a person who would come.

They do not identify Jesus of Nazareth as that person. The Bereans accept from oral tradition (Paul) that Jesus of Nazareth was

1)born of a virgin
2) born in Bethlehem
3) did not see decay.

Which promptly removes them fromt he world of sola-scriptura and squarely into the world of scripture AND tradition.