ST. John Calvin

[Reformationist]

Way to not make any discernable counterpoint...

Why bother? Are you going to abandon the unbiblical teachings of your faith if I do so?

You guys with your "we are the One, True Church" nonsense are always tripping over each other. Make the claim all you want. The Bible is rife with Scripture that speaks against the nonsense that comes from the pulpits in your denomination. As I said, it would do little good to have a conversation with you on the issues as you can't fathom the possibility that reformed theology is biblically accurate.

 

[Reformationist]

No, I believe you are running the around the argument into a tangent to prove your point.

Um...sorry, but you lost me. You said my explanation of the apparent contrasting viewpoints of Paul and James was an "inaccurate understanding that is only used in Protestantism." I'm simply seeking to understand what you believe is the accurate understanding.

 

[Imperiuz]

The Bible is rife with Scripture that speaks against the nonsense that comes from the pulpits in your denomination.

Proof?

 

[SeraphimSarov]

Why bother? Are you going to abandon the unbiblical teachings of your faith if I do so?

I have to wonder, then, why you are even participating in this thread. And I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you have never so much as seen an Orthodox service, yet you're still arguing against it.

You guys with your "we are the One, True Church" nonsense are always tripping over each other. Make the claim all you want.

Try examining our theology. We don't view this in the same way as the Roman church at all.

The Bible is rife with Scripture that speaks against the nonsense that comes from the pulpits in your denomination.

There was no such thing as denominations when my "denomination" canonized Scripture... how can anyone say that the Bible contradicts the very Church that canonized it? Make some sense, will you?

As I said, it would do little good to have a conversation with you on the issues as you can't fathom the possibility that reformed theology is biblically accurate.

How do you know what possibilities that I can and can't fathom...? Shall I just turn your silly and shallow argument right back at you?

 

[Reformationist]

Show me how I was wrong here instead of telling me that the NKJV and that the Orthodox Church is wrong.

I never said the NKJV was wrong. In fact, it is the translation I generally use. As to what your church teaches, it isn't reflected in Scripture so I'm gonna need more than your opinion to view it the way you do.

The verse that you told me to read do nothing but confirm that my views about salvation is correct.

Okay. Well, sorry to hear that.

And what is so wrong with the NKJV? The KJV isn't "holy" in anyway, the Septuagint is.

LOL! I'm not a KJV only activist. You're barking up the wrong tree there Fido.

Sorry, thank you for correcting me here.

Okay, well, as I said, faith is shown to be true by the evidence of its fruit, i.e., works. The word for "justified" in James 2:21 is dikaioō, which is the same word used in the following verse:

Luke 7:35
But wisdom is justified by all her children.

As in James 2:21, the "justification" is evidence of veracity. That is, wisdom is shown to be, in fact, wisdom by its fruits (children). It is used in the same fashion in James 2:21. In verse 18 James says, "I will show you my faith by my works."

That is, he will show the veracity of his faith by his works, for true faith always produces works. This is to show as false the claims that professions of faith are possessions of faith simply because they are made. True faith is a living, vital faith. It will always produce works.

So how do you intercept this verse, Mark 16:16?

Believers go to Heaven (this, of course, presumes true faith), non-believers go to hell. Not that difficult of a verse.

James 5:16 (NKJV)

"Confess your trespasses to one another,and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much."

Great. We're to confess our sins. What's your point? Is it that the nonsensical mandate of confession to a priest somehow absolves us? We are to confess our sins to one another because there is strength in the help of our brethren to lift us up and share our burden.

God is the almighty sovereign, No one would deny that.

Your denomination denies it everytime they presume that God wanted something to come to pass that doesn't.

I do read the bible, three-four times a week. The Anno 1917 version of the bible in Swedish. And I haven't found a single verse who go against the teachings of the Orthodox Church.

Okay. Great. Is the fact that a 15 year old kid who is a member of the Orthodox denomination cannot find a verse that contradicts everything he starts off assuming is true supposed to be authoritative to anyone but you? If there were a verse that said, "Hey ScarletCrusader, the EO denomination is wrong" you'd likely disregard it as your denomination disregards any of the verses which explicitly teach contrary to the beliefs you presume to be true.

 

[Reformationist]

Come and see. One guess as to whether you've ever even seen what you're arguing with...

Well, unless it's completely different than the nonsense the EO members purport, I have seen it.

I applaud their rejection of indulgences, an outrageous abuse of authority backed by indefensible theology.

That's only the tip of the iceberg. Their, and your, views on justification mark both of your denominations, in my opinion, as something other than Christian.

Many of the fruits of their efforts, as well as some indefensible theology of their own, however, I cannot applaud.

Well, as those views likely fly right in the face of what you consider authoritative, that isn't much of a surprise.

 

[Reformationist]

I have to wonder, then, why you are even participating in this thread.

I'm pretty hardheaded I guess. That and the fact that I am well aware that God can remove the scales from before the eyes of someone despite my feeble ability to relay the truth.

And I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you have never so much as seen an Orthodox service, yet you're still arguing against it.

I need not see a service if the views of your denomination are clearly at odds with Scripture. The service would just be window dressing on a dungpile.

Try examining our theology.

Need I start off with the presumption that I cannot apprehend the truth if I only view the Bible as the primary authority on matters of faith?

We don't view this in the same way as the Roman church at all.

Well, that's good.

There was no such thing as denominations when my "denomination" canonized Scripture...

Your denomination was not the early Christian church. That is made evident by the fact that the exact same claims are made by those who submit to another authority. Either way, the church received that which was canonical. They did not establish what was canonical. The authority of Scripture rests with God, who protected the canonization process from error. It does not lie with the leaders of your denomination.

how can anyone say that the Bible contradicts the very Church that canonized it? Make some sense, will you?

LOL! Good luck with that.

How do you know what possibilities that I can and can't fathom...?

Well, let's see, do you acknowledge the possibility that your entire faith is based on falsehood and perversion of Scripture?

Shall I just turn your silly and shallow argument right back at you?

No need. You make plenty enough silly and shallow arguments on your own.

 

[Reformationist]

Proof?

Would you accept proof from someone who denies the authority of your denomination's understanding of Scripture?

 

[Thekla]

sizzlin' in here :o

 

[SeraphimSarov]

I'm pretty hardheaded I guess. That and the fact that I am well aware that God can remove the scales from before the eyes of someone despite my feeble ability to relay the truth.

Especially because the only way you can do it is to be as abrasive as you can...

I need not see a service if the views of your denomination are clearly at odds with Scripture. The service would just be window dressing on a dungpile.

Your words here speak volumes.

Need I start off with the presumption that I cannot apprehend the truth if I only view the Bible as the primary authority on matters of faith?

The Bible never declares itself to be any such thing.

Well, that's good.

Sure.

Your denomination was not the early Christian church. That is made evident by the fact that the exact same claims are made by those who submit to another authority.

I've already told you that your claim here is false. You don't bother even asking how. That's not to mention the fact that the evidence you provide does not support your conclusion, or even point to it.

Either way, the church received that which was canonical. They did not establish what was canonical. The authority of Scripture rests with God, who protected the canonization process from error. It does not lie with the leaders of your denomination.

Of course God protected the canonization process from error. Obviously. What seems to be flying over your head is the fact that God still used man to do it. Were they just robots during this process, as you are implying?

LOL! Good luck with that.

There is no such thing as luck.

Well, let's see, do you acknowledge the possibility that your entire faith is based on falsehood and perversion of Scripture?

Again, right back at you: do you? I already did have to admit that. Let's see you do it.

No need. You make plenty enough silly and shallow arguments on your own.

Right. Because you flatly refuse to offer any kind of debate and would rather refer to my faith as a dungheap.

Now that I think about it, I am not willing to continue discussion with you if that's the only way you can make your points. May God bless you.

 

[SeraphimSarov]

sizzlin' in here :o

I'm fighting the urge to use the report button, but I'd rather let the words of certain people speak for themselves.

 

[Thekla]

The Mormons quote from the Bible as well. By that standard, they must be right as well. What your denomination does is pervert the Truth of Scripture.

could you list the "perversions" ?

 

[Oblio]

My guess would be anything he personally disagrees with.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

They aren't that far off from scripture really. Just they claim to be the one true church, and all the icons. (Do EO pray to icons/saints?) (But I think they also say that everyone's salvation takes different roads.)

 

[Oblio]

We petition Saints for their prayers. We do not pray to icons, they are just wood and paint, as Scripture is paper and ink.

 

[simonthezealot]

We err, Christ Church can not.

Facts are the facts. There is only one Church that Jesus established..

The Word of God doesn't teach us that
His Church will be error free. If you read the Word of God,
you wouldn't consider the Church to be error free.
In fact, you should conclude quite the opposite, since
Paul was always writing letters to correct certain churches'
errors. In fact even in Rev 2 & 3 we see that the churches in
John's day were filled with error.
It's the RCC that teaches the RCC is infallible,
not the Word of God. So it seems as though your faith
is in the RCC regarding the Church never teaching error.

 

[Rick Otto]

My guess would be anything he personally disagrees with.

"O", you're not hinting that you personaly agree with ... never mind. [ ]

OBLIO!

We petition Saints for their prayers. We do not pray to icons, they are just wood and paint, as Scripture is paper and ink.

JUST wood & paint?
Then why can't I find one at a garage sale?
Why aren't they simply chucked into a dumpster when they fade & chip?
Why do they have to be made just so, to qualify for icon status?
Don't they have to be ceremoniously disposed of?

Hey man, you ain't jivin' me, is you?
You got a lot of 'splainin' to do, "Lucy"!

 

[SeraphimSarov]

"
Then why can't I find one at a garage sale?
Why aren't they simply chucked into a dumpster when they fade & chip?

Did you give this any thought before you posted? Surely you wouldn't treat a Bible that way...

 

[Rick Otto]

sizzlin' in here :o

Pass the popcorn...

 

[Rick Otto]

Did you give this any thought before you posted? Surely you wouldn't treat a Bible that way...

Dude, Obi said "just wood & paint".
That is the way I would treat "just wood & paint",...
& no, I don't use ritual or ceremony to dispose of a worn-out or damaged bible.
How much more thought do we need here, Kjell?