ST. John Calvin

[Benedicta00]

I have not read the reformers works, I have read the Bible. The Bible calls us saints, under construction or otherwise, we are saints. Pretty straight forward, IMO. If you want to set the writings and traditions of men on an equal footing as Scripture, that is your decision, but you should know that it is dangerous as it leaves us open to following bad teachings and outright false teachings.

Mont, you can say that all you want but you... me ... the man on the moon .. we all have our indoctrination, that is why we believe as we do, we were taught.

You display much of the Anabaptist tradition. You read the bible Mont, through that lens... I read it through the Catholic Church lens, Reformationist reads it trough Calvin's lens.. get it? None of us are with out an influence.

WE ALL proof text, Catholics included. But it is what tradtion we follow Mont, that we need to investigate and be concerned with.

 

[mont974x4]

fair enough


What denomination do you suppose the man in the moon is?

 

[Benedicta00]

fair enough


What denomination do you suppose the man in the moon is?

Good question...

 

[mont974x4]

I bet he belongs to the 1 interstellar church of Christ

 

[Benedicta00]

I bet he belongs to the 1 interstellar church of Christ

 

[mont974x4]

He is King of all things...the moon included.

 

[lionroar0]

Calvin was a believer. The Bible calls believers saints even if you don't. The evidence is in the scriptures you render of no effect with your traditions.

I'm not debating that he was a beliver and a saint.

But there are those that have called Calvin a Saint. The question is on what grounds should he be honored as a Saint?


Peace

 

[lionroar0]

He is a saint for the same reason I am, you are, and any other saint is a saint...because we are children of God, joint heirs, a royal priesthood called by Him.

No debate

Peace

 

[lionroar0]

Nothing good has come from my participation in this thread. I've been ungodly to others and have been on the receiving end of ungodliness from a few who seem to think the problems in this thread are, in no way, attributable to their own behavior. I've yet to see a single shred of evidence that the practice of canonization, whoever it is that's doing it, is biblically justified. I will continue to view Calvin as someone that is worthy of my esteem dispite the fact that he likely thought he was someone who was not. I could care less what those of you who have such disdain for the man feel about him and I'm wasting my time being exposed to your derision.

The evidence has been presented both historically and scripturally.

I will continue to view Calvin as someone that is worthy of my esteem dispite the fact that he likely thought he was someone who was not. I could care less what those of you who have such disdain for the man feel about him and I'm wasting my time being exposed to your derision.

Nothing but Straw.

The question was never should he be honored and worthy of steem. A person does not need to be a Saint to be honored and be worthy of steem.

The question was on what grounds should he be honored as a Saint. On what grounds should he be called a Saint?

And as I predicted you could not show any evidence that he should be honored as a Saint, because it is not a practice of your christian tradition.

Peace

 

[Benedicta00]

I'm not debating that he was a beliver and a saint.

But there are those that have called Calvin a Saint. The question is on what grounds should he be honored as a Saint?


Peace

Exactly as I already said, I hope he did make it... just as I hope my grandmother made it. Hope is a virtue and I can not understand why ppl do not recognize that it is. Some folks act offended when we say we have hope...)))what??((( What is that about?

Hope is a good thing... not a bad thing, God gave this to us, we are supposed to exercise it, we are supposed to have hope just as we are supposed to have faith and love.

It 's faith, hope and love... not faith, a guarantee and love. I hope for my salvation and the salvation of others because Christ came and paid the price for sinners in order so I can have it, just as He did so I can have faith and love too.

No one is ever with out hope. That is the beauty of Christianity, we are never with out hope.

But like Jesus said, (pay attention this is scripture citation) "There are those who will be called great in the kingdom..." when a person like Mother Theresa dies we do not right away assume she went straight up to heaven... we wait for confirmation and the Church scrutinizes her life and the fruits she displayed, (more scripture citation) "By their fruits we will know them..." and then we await miracles from God attributed to her intercession. The Church again scrutinizes the miracles as well and this takes about 50 years on average and then the Church will declare what God has reveal to us, this person is "Bless-ed," she is in heaven, and is the "great in the Kingdom."

Great in the Kingdom meaning, her prayers for mankind down here is powerful before the throne of God... "the prayers of the righteous prevails much."

 

[IamAdopted]

But there are those that have called Calvin a Saint. The question is on what grounds should he be honored as a Saint?

On the grounds that He believed in the Lord Jesus Christ and believed His word over tradtion..

 

[IamAdopted]

t like Jesus said, (pay attention this is scripture citation) "There are those who will be called great in the kingdom..." when a person like Mother Theresa dies we do not right away assume she went straight up to heaven... we wait for confirmation and the Church scrutinizes her life and the fruits she displayed, (more scripture citation) "By their fruits we will know them..." and then we await miracles from God attributed to her intercession. The Church again scrutinizes the miracles as well and this takes about 50 years on average and then the Church will declare what God has reveal to us, this person is "Bless-ed," she is in heaven, and is the "great in the Kingdom."

We don't have to assume anything about any saint. If they were a true believer in Christ Jesus they went home to be with the Lord as scripture tells us.. In fact Scripture tells us we are not to wonder if they went up or down..

 

[jckstraw72]

On the grounds that He believed in the Lord Jesus Christ and believed His word over tradtion..

Tradition IS God's word, why do you continually separate the two?

 

[Rick Otto]

and we're not talkin' about what your church does.
Scripture calls believers saints.
Your tradition throws scripture aside.

Benedicta:But like Jesus said, (pay attention this is scripture citation) "There are those who will be called great in the kingdom..." when a person like Mother Theresa dies we do not right away assume she went straight up to heaven... we wait for confirmation and the Church scrutinizes her life and the fruits she displayed,

 

[lionroar0]

We're not talkin' bout bein' called "great"...

and we're not talkin' about what your church does.
Scripture calls believers saints.
Your tradition throws scripture aside.

Scriptures also says that there will be those called great in the Kingdom of heaven.

Our tradition does not throw away that scriptures says we are belivers(saints.)

Our tradition recognizes those that we know have finished the race this side of heaven.

This is something your tradition does not do, nor belives. (correct me if I'm wrong.)

Peace

 

[lionroar0]

We don't have to assume anything about any saint. If they were a true believer in Christ Jesus they went home to be with the Lord as scripture tells us.. In fact Scripture tells us we are not to wonder if they went up or down..

We are not talking about a belivers (saints). The Church makes no decisions whether a beliver has gone to heaven of not. This is for God alone to decide.

This is about calling people Saints.

It is about those that God has revealed to us who are in heaven.

We call them Saints.

There are probably many more Saints in heaven that we don't know about.

Peace

 

[IamAdopted]

We are not talking about a belivers (saints). The Church makes no decisions whether a beliver has gone to heaven of not. This is for God alone to decide.

This is about calling people Saints.

It is about those that God has revealed to us who are in heaven.

We call them Saints.

There are probably many more Saints in heaven that we don't know about.

Peace

Now why would God have to reveal to you who is in heaven when scripture tells us that ? It is revealed in His word who is a saint and who is not a saint.

 

[Rick Otto]

lionroar0;Our tradition does not throw away that scriptures says we are belivers(saints.)

Alright then, I stand corrected. You don't throw them away, but by starting a new tradition of capitalizing the "S" and making the word a title to be earned by miracles, makes the scripture of little or no effect.

Our tradition recognizes those that we know have finished the race this side of heaven.

Odd how you can be so sure of this & not accept the doctrine of eternal security of the believer.

This is something your tradition does not do, nor belives. (correct me if I'm wrong.)

Since Prots don't have a monolithic structure established it is misleading to speak of them as having "a tradition" in an institutionalized sense. To think we don't recognize the saints is a mistake. We recognize them as soon as we know about them, but to institute a special day etc., is akin to Peter's heaping stones at the transfiguration if ya know what I mean.

 

[lionroar0]

Now why would God have to reveal to you who is in heaven when scripture tells us that ? It is revealed in His word who is a saint and who is not a saint.

Does it say who is in heaven and hell?

Peace

 

[lionroar0]

Alright then, I stand corrected. You don't throw them away, but by starting a new tradition of capitalizing the "S" and making the word a title to be earned by miracles, makes the scripture of little or no effect.

We did not start a new tradition. The first Saints were those that were martyred by the Roman persecutions.

Odd how you can be so sure of this & not accept the doctrine of eternal security of the believer.

We know that they are secure when God reveals that they are in heaven.

Since Prots don't have a monolithic structure established it is misleading to speak of them as having "a tradition" in an institutionalized sense. To think we don't recognize the saints is a mistake. We recognize them as soon as we know about them, but to institute a special day etc., is akin to Peter's heaping stones at the transfiguration if ya know what I mean.

My turn to stand corrected.

.....but to institute a special day etc., is akin to Peter's heaping stones at the transfiguration if ya know what I mean

Who is honored in reformation day?

Peace