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I agree.Sainthood is about sanctity? Well, since to be sancified implies being set apart and holy, and it is He who does that to all beleivers then all beleivers are saints. It has nothing to do with perfection, approval by a denomination, or the attribution of miracles to the individual.
"Can I get a witness?"... we might well ask ourselves if ... spiritual life is even possible without the testimony of the Lives of the Saints. The answer to this, I believe, must be "no."
First, we are not presumptuous enough to expect anyone to believe Calvin was worthy of honor. You either believe he was, or you don't.
We don't fall prey to the arrogant notion that a fallible inspection of someone's life justifies awarding them a title that indicates a level of sanctification we have no ability to validate. Secondly, doing so is no more insulting than your denomination presuming that their recognition of someone's holiness means anything more than that they fancy themselves in the place of God.
Sainthood is about sanctity? Well, since to be sancified implies being set apart and holy, and it is He who does that to all beleivers then all beleivers are saints. It has nothing to do with perfection, approval by a denomination, or the attribution of miracles to the individual.
but I showed you that there is...Except that there is no biblical basis for the "S"aint title as opposed to saint, and we all know people do more than just give them the title. Prayers? Feasts?
just as you show me no such thing that condemns it or contradicts it.you showed me no such thing
Perfection IS holiness, sanctity and we have all been consecrated, set apart for a holy use and purpose, TO BECOME what Christ redeemed us all to be, children of the most high God, the children we were intended to be in the first place, HOLY and PERFECT.Sainthood is about sanctity? Well, since to be sancified implies being set apart and holy, and it is He who does that to all beleivers then all beleivers are saints. It has nothing to do with perfection, approval by a denomination, or the attribution of miracles to the individual.
Except that there is no biblical basis for the "S"aint title as opposed to saint, and we all know people do more than just give them the title. Prayers? Feasts?
just like there is NO explicit instruction that the Catholic Church's practices are condemned.Biblical support has already been shown. Now if you would like explicit instruction from the Bible well there isn't any. Just as there are no explicit Biblical instruction that everything that we belive must be explicitly mentioned in the Bible.
Peace
"[T]hat it is neither possible for us ever to forsake Christ, who suffered for the salvation of such as shall be saved throughout the whole world (the blameless one for sinners), nor to worship any other. For Him indeed, as being the Son of God, we adore; but the martyrs, as disciples and followers of the Lord, we worthily love on account of their extraordinary affection towards their own King and Master, of whom may we also be made companions and fellow disciples! The centurion then, seeing the strife excited by the Jews, placed the body in the midst of the fire, and consumed it. Accordingly, we afterwards took up his bones, as being more precious than the most exquisite jewels, and more purified than gold, and deposited them in a fitting place, whither, being gathered together, as opportunity is allowed us, with joy and rejoicing, the Lord shall grant us to celebrate the anniversary of his martyrdom, both in memory of those who have already finished their course, and for the exercising and preparation of those yet to walk in their steps."
Martyrdom of Polycarp 17,18(A.D. 157),in ANF,I:43
Well when it comes to spritual matters of faith and practice the bible is sufficient and we are instructed not to exceed what is written.Biblical support has already been shown. Now if you would like explicit instruction from the Bible well there isn't any. Just as there are no explicit Biblical instruction that everything that we belive must be explicitly mentioned in the Bible.
Peace
That's a great verse! Notice it says "guard" not "add to" or "expect future revelations".1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, guard that which is committed unto thee, turning away from the profane babblings and oppositions of the knowledge which is falsely so called;
1Ti 6:21 which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with you.
Not quite sure what your point is here, how is what's said bout Polycarp here any more (C)atholic as you claim than Hus' martyrdom...they were both willing to give their life for their faith in Jesus the Christ! And yet they were both killed by Rome...Mont, do you know who PolyCarp is or was? He was a student of the apostles John, John even baptized him when he was a BABY.
Check out the date... a little more the 100 years after Christ went up. This is what the first few generations of Christians believed...THIS is the faith that is handed down to us, Catholic.
Same as scripture. Belief in Jesus Christ.Benedicta00;So our question to you is, what do you base you honoring them as a Saint on?
Our saints are blessed because they show the fruit of regeneration... belief in Jesus Christ.Our Saints who died with the mark of faith displayed the fruits of the Holy Spirit that Paul listed and we can look at their life and according to the beatitudes, we can see that they are "blessed"... blessed to us means you are walking in holiness, and after death, you are in heaven... that's why you are blessed, because you ran the race, kept your focus on Jesus, live the beatific life and you made it, you have your crown, heaven.
So then you ask dead saints to pray for you. Whatever.What we do when we believe we have a true Saint (one who reached full sanctification while on earth) is we ask God to hear their prayers for us and if God grants our prayers through their intersession, then God has given us confirmation, yes they are in heaven and not going through purgatory. *We* don't get to decide anything, God reveals it to us.
No, not even.What y'all are doing is talking about what makes a person a doctor of the Church.
Sounds impossibly complicated, lost somewhere between art & science.That it totally separate from a martyr or Saint. Although Doctors can also be martyrs and Saints as well and 10 times out of 10, they are.
...Ambiguous & possibly grandiose.Being declared a doctor of the Church is recognizing that a certain person was endowed with an incredible gift and his theological expressions were inspired by the Holy Spirit.
That shows incredible restraint.The Catholic Church has made only a few Saints actual doctors of the Church. Augustine is one, St. Theresa of Avila is one, St. Theresa, Little Flower is another.
Chill out. No one wants to put Calvin's writings on the level of scripture.If you guys want, I guess... you can recognize Calvin in your circle because you think he was a "doctor" endowed with a special gift of the Spirit where what he wrote was under the Holy Spirit's inspiration... just don't expect us to agree with you and don't go around making a case that he was holy because his actions said otherwise.
But if a pope has bastard children & dies in the bed of a married woman, his pontifications on faith & morals are still infallible.One can also validly argue that because his fruit was so off the mark of what it should have been, he could in no way have been inspired by the Holy Spirit to write theology.
You should be so picky about who you title "Father", "Bishop", and "Pope".But where we get defensie is, honoring with the title Saint as if his behavior is something we all should admire as Christian behavior. That is what we find blasphemous.
That's right.That's a great verse! Notice it says "guard" not "add to" or "expect future revelations".
Remember
NASB
2Ti 3:14 You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them,
2Ti 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
2Ti 3:17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
and
2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:
2Pe 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord;
2Pe 1:3 seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence.
Nothing suggests future revelation is/was needed. We already have everything we need for life and godliness, to be fully equipped for every good work.
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