• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Status
Not open for further replies.

lionroar0

Coffee drinker
Jul 10, 2004
9,362
705
54
✟35,401.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Romans 8

29For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
30and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
 
Upvote 0

Reformationist

Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam
Mar 7, 2002
14,273
465
52
✟44,595.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

LOL! Riiiight. You guys bow to statues of the creation because you're giving glory to the Creator. Sure. Good one. Giving glory to God because of the works of His servant is completely different than what both your and the Roman denomination do.

Exodus 20:4-6
“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Seem rather clear, even if you claim that bowing down to them isn't worshipping them, for the passage itself differentiates between "bowing down to them" and "serving them."
 
Upvote 0

Reformationist

Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam
Mar 7, 2002
14,273
465
52
✟44,595.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single

One of my favorite verses in all of the Bible. Knowing that God's love for His elect ensures that they were predestined unto eternal fellowship with Him and called to that purpose and will be likewise justified and glorified through the dispensation of His invincible grace is truly a comfort to those who trust in God rather than in the traditions of man for their redemption. Truly, it renders those who laud the "free will" of man, as does your own error laden denomination, as truly the purveyors of untruth and nothing more.
 
Upvote 0

lionroar0

Coffee drinker
Jul 10, 2004
9,362
705
54
✟35,401.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single


As I suspect. There is no objective evidence with in your christian tradition to the giving the title of Saint to a person. Which is a Catholic practice.


The above is the reason why the CC canonizes Saints.



As we have shown it isn't just a grammatical device. There is an actual process. The above is nothing but another straw man.


False dichonomy the ealry church was the Catholic Church and she recognized the Scritpures.


A stated the anti-catholicism is showing.

I'm well aware what anthropcentric means. It means centered around man.

God became man. He was born into this world as a man and God. Catholicism is centered around only one man that is Jesus who is also God.

In case that was too rational for your unbalanced way of viewing things, I'll spell it out.

LOL. You know nothing about me.


Peace
 
Upvote 0

lionroar0

Coffee drinker
Jul 10, 2004
9,362
705
54
✟35,401.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
You guys bow to statues of the creation because you're giving glory to the Creator. Sure. Good one. Giving glory to God because of the works of His servant is completely different than what both your and the Roman denomination do.

Kristos is not Roman Catholic he is Eastern Orthodox.

You know the other Church which also is in the pracitice of Canonizing Saints. Which I mentioned a few posts back.

Peace
 
Upvote 0

lionroar0

Coffee drinker
Jul 10, 2004
9,362
705
54
✟35,401.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single

If you would stop condeming that which you neither understand nor know and actually learn.

The CC does teach limited predestation.


Peace
 
Upvote 0

lionroar0

Coffee drinker
Jul 10, 2004
9,362
705
54
✟35,401.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
It would be just like a Catholic to miss the forest for the trees. What we see in this thread is nothing more than anti-Calvinism. Despite your posturing, the world doesn't revolve around your denomination.

Who's posturing?


ANd yet you have provided no objective evidence. While on the other hand we have.

And the adhominems keep coming.

Peace

 
Upvote 0

lionroar0

Coffee drinker
Jul 10, 2004
9,362
705
54
✟35,401.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single

I could see him as a saint. Not as a Saint. If he did something worth admiring then shows us what it is.

Instead posting assertions and claims with no evidence.

Peace
 
Upvote 0

mont974x4

The Christian Anarchist
Site Supporter
Aug 1, 2006
17,630
1,304
Montana, USA
Visit site
✟69,115.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
I could see him as a saint. Not as a Saint. If he did something worth admiring then shows us what it is.

Instead posting assertions and claims with no evidence.

Peace
That's the crux, isn't it? The basis of these discussions on Calvin and Luther? We are all saints if we are His. It really is that simple. There is no call from Scripture for what the RCC does regarding Sainthood.
 
Upvote 0

lionroar0

Coffee drinker
Jul 10, 2004
9,362
705
54
✟35,401.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
That's the crux, isn't it? The basis of these discussions on Calvin and Luther? We are all saints if we are His. It really is that simple. There is no call from Scripture for what the RCC does regarding Sainthood.

That's your opinion. For those of us who do have the christian practice of calling people Saints, there's plenty of Scriptural proof.

Peace
 
Upvote 0

Reformationist

Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam
Mar 7, 2002
14,273
465
52
✟44,595.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
As I suspect. There is no objective evidence with in your christian tradition to the giving the title of Saint to a person. Which is a Catholic practice.

Again, this matters not. And, as I previously stated, it is clear that your objection to our usage of the title is simply one against the person to whom we seek to pay honor rather than the fact that we are using a title that you errantly, or arrogantly, feel is the exclusive purview of your denomination. I've referred to Augustine as St. Augustine a number of times on this MB and have never once encountered an objection from any of you. I would expect the same lack of objection if I were to refer to any of those to whom your denomination believes they have honored with a title that you believe was yours to give. It is not the Roman church's designation of someone that makes their acts meritorious. All you do in bestowing the title, whether it is warranted or not, is that of recognition of what you perceive as holiness. What is plain to all who are not consumed with fealty to the leaders of your denomination is that you take no issue with our usage of the title so long as it is one that you, yourself, feel is appropriately bestowed. It's similar in nature to our employment of terms like "predestination" and "regeneration." We both use the terms, we simply use them in reference to a different set of beliefs regarding the role of God in the life of the believer. That you assume we use or, rather, recognize that the title is appropriately bestowed on someone whom your denomination does not recognize as deserving only proves that you think we justify using the title for the same pitiful, anthropocentric reasons that your denomination does. It simply is not the case. We believe John Calvin was deserving and we believe he played a role in God's plan to reveal the corruption in the continuing practices of your denomination. That said, he is deserving not because of what he did so much as what God did through him.

The above is the reason why the CC canonizes Saints.

Great. I'm not here complaining about your usage of the title on someone that I see as unworthy. That, however, seems to be your MO, and all based on the delusional concept that the OP referred to Calvin as St. Calvin on the same grounds that your denomination bestows the title which, in the eyes of many, though none whose opinion likely matters to you, serves as more of an indictment.

As we have shown it isn't just a grammatical device. There is an actual process. The above is nothing but another straw man.

And again, it matters not that you see such claims as a strawman. Your "process" is nothing that stands justified before God. It is merely the perception of man, based on nothing more than the elevation of the traditions of fallen man. In short, your application of St. vs. saint is of no consequence, for it is of no value before God. If you simply mean to applaud those you see as contributory to the establishment of the Kingdom of God, feel free. Your denomination doesn't consult me on whether I think a person fits the bill so I have no doubt that they care not what I think on the matter, just as I, and others who recognize Calvin's contribution, could care less that you and yours show disdain for him.

False dichonomy the ealry church was the Catholic Church and she recognized the Scritpures.

I understand that the "early church" was the Church catholica, though all you contend in my eyes is that the church has been in error for a long time. But alas, such is the way of man, that without restraint he will pursue a road that elevates himself. Such has been the case in the Church body for quite some time, though I submit that the bridle that was put in place by the reformers did much to stem the tide of destruction that is left in the wake of denominations such as your own.

A stated the anti-catholicism is showing.

Why do you say this as if it should give me pause? If the Catholic denomination perverts Scripture, which they surely do, then as a child of God I am bound to be against that. Whether my views of Scripture are accurate or not, there is far too much of God's Word that explicitly refutes the views of your church for me to ever fall prey to the anthropocentric nonsense that is preached within her halls.

I'm well aware what anthropcentric means. It means centered around man.

God became man. He was born into this world as a man and God. Catholicism is centered around only one man that is Jesus who is also God.

That was clever, in a really misguided way. No lion, the term anthropocentric, while you are correct in understanding it to mean "man centered," refers to the emphasis that denominations like your own place on the created man.

LOL. You know nothing about me.

I daresay that's true of my knowledge of everyone on this board, at least in the general sense. I know that you are devoted to defending your views and your denomination, however misguided that loyalty may be. My cursory knowledge of you may be insufficient to determine what type of person you are but I hold no illusions regarding your willingness, or lackthereof, to consider anything but what spews forth from the pulpits of your church.
 
Upvote 0

mont974x4

The Christian Anarchist
Site Supporter
Aug 1, 2006
17,630
1,304
Montana, USA
Visit site
✟69,115.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Oh, I have no problem calling people saints. That is biblcial....over 60 verses if I recall correctly.

However, none of those verses require a formal recognition by the RCC, and special feast days, praying to them, attributing miracles to them or elevating any of them above another one. In fact, most (if not all)of those verses address believers that are still alive on earth. Simply put, biblically, there are believers/saints and there are non-beleivers/not saints.
 
Upvote 0

Reformationist

Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam
Mar 7, 2002
14,273
465
52
✟44,595.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Kristos is not Roman Catholic he is Eastern Orthodox.

Thanks for stating the obvious there Captain. As you can see in the quote that you seem oblivious to but felt justified in citing, I said, "Giving glory to God because of the works of His servant is completely different than what both your and the Roman denomination do." That's what we call a distinction. When one says "both" it refers to two distinct and separate entities, though I will acknowledge that in many ways, it is a distinction without a difference.

You know the other Church which also is in the pracitice of Canonizing Saints. Which I mentioned a few posts back.

Quite possibly you may want to digest what is said before you respond. Doing so may help prevent you making this same glaring display of ineptitude in the future.


Oh yes, well, peace to you as well.
 
Upvote 0

Reformationist

Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam
Mar 7, 2002
14,273
465
52
✟44,595.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
If you would stop condeming that which you neither understand nor know and actually learn.

Oh do teach wise one...and by all means, don't hesitate to follow your own advice.

The CC does teach limited predestation.

That's fortunate, as it is a biblical concept that is spoken of explicitly. As such, all Christian faiths must have a doctrine addressing predestination. Yours is no different. And, just so you know, I am well aware of your denomination's unbiblical and, yes, anthropocentric, view of predestination. I linked it back in post 392 for your hovering young padawan, though at the moment I cannot recall whether he claims affiliation to your denomination or the EO. Either way, what I linked was the Roman view of predestination.
 
Upvote 0

Reformationist

Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam
Mar 7, 2002
14,273
465
52
✟44,595.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I could see him as a saint. Not as a Saint. If he did something worth admiring then shows us what it is.

Well, there are numerous things though I imagine that, in your eyes, they rank more as reasons to reject him than embrace him. I would say he played a great role in revealing the unbiblical practices and beliefs of the Roman church and, for that matter, all other semi-Pelagian denominations.

Does that suffice for you, oh great and esteemed lionroar0, to recognize him as, at least, a saint?

Yeah, didn't think so.
 
Upvote 0

Reformationist

Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam
Mar 7, 2002
14,273
465
52
✟44,595.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
That's your opinion.

Hello pot, meet kettle.

For those of us who do have the christian practice of calling people Saints, there's plenty of Scriptural proof.

Please, that we may be as versed in the subject as you, or at least more versed in the subject, share with us the "Scriptural proof" of your denomination's bestowal of the term Saint as it differs from the biblical reference to the people of God.
 
Upvote 0

Rick Otto

The Dude Abides
Nov 19, 2002
34,112
7,406
On The Prairie
✟29,593.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Well I would say that saints was used first by Paul and I know He was not catholic.. He was jewish. He also was an ambassador for Christ..
OK, so we have apostles of Christ & ambassadors of Christ... but lets not have an Attorney General for Christ!
 
Upvote 0

lionroar0

Coffee drinker
Jul 10, 2004
9,362
705
54
✟35,401.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Oh, I have no problem calling people saints. That is biblcial....over 60 verses if I recall correctly.

Exactly my point.


Not all belivers did and do all of what you have mentiomed above.

Also the Sainst have been perfected in Christ in this life. They finished the race in this life.

Matt: 5:8
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

This is why they are recognized as Saints.

We are all called to try to be perfect in Christ. Not all believers are perfected in Christ in this life.

Peace
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.