ST. John Calvin

[Benedicta00]

Awww...poor wuttle guy....is him upset

What the heck is that? What makes you dare talk to another ppl like that?

 

[Benedicta00]

The Puritans, who taught the same tenents of faith as the Calvinists, came here to get away from the teachings of Calvinism. Okay. Well, at least you're consistant in not making any sense.



Their authority is no less or no more than that of the Pope. And, as far as the Pope being the son of satan, well we are all born as children of the devil and it is God who changes our familial affiliation.

Go and grab one of your kids history books, it should be in there. The Pilgrims who came here came, came here to get away from authority and they set themselves up as "the" authority. They were very intolerant, they did not allow Catholics, Quakers, anyone who was not a Calvinist to practice their faith openly.

That is a fact-- jack.

 

[lionroar0]

You are UNfamiliar that it IS a Prot practice give honor, but NOT worship* deceased believers, ALL of whom scripture calls "saints", in opposition to CC tradition of making it INTO a title, instead of a simple adjective.
Just another CC nicolaitane practice that subtracts from scripture on one hand while adding to it on the other .

Actually it is not a nicolaitane practice. It is wholly a christian orthodox practice that some christians do not take part in.

If they want to call them saints instead of Saints, then by all means.

A title is an adjective. Calling Saints with a capital "S" tall us that they have led a heroic christian life and God performed miracles through them.

Peace

 

[Reformationist]

how can "synergy" deny the work of God when we are created ?

I have no clue what you are asking.

if there is no room for synergy, why did Adam and Eve fall ?

As was quite explicit in my post, I said that those, like yourself, who do not see salvation as exclusively the work of God logically do not see the maintenance of that salvation as exclusively the work of God. It appears, though I could be misunderstanding, that you refer to the volitional actions of man by which God certainly does manifest His will. Many aspects of our existence, be we regenerate or not, are synergistic. Salvation is not one of them.

 

[Reformationist]

By using a Catholic practice nontheless. I guess the christian tradition that you practice is so deficient that it has to steal from the CC and then try to pass it off as it's own.

What hypocricy!!!

Peace

Acknowledging a person's godly contribution to the Kingdom of God has never been "a Catholic practice." It is a Christian practice and I am a Christian, by the grace of God, the same grace that you must appeal to for your inclusion in His family. I steal nothing from your anthropocentric exercise of faith, for I want no part of it.

 

[Reformationist]

We are familiar with that it is not a protestant practice to give honor and venerate those that have passed on to heaven and give them the titles of Saint.





Peace

Is it that we're using a title you arrogantly feel is the exclusive purview of your denomination or is it simply that you feel that Calvin isn't worthy of veneration? Would you take issue with a Protestant referring to Augustine as St. Augustine?

And just so you don't continue to reveal your ignorance of Protestant perspective, we have always given honor to the Saints. Just because we don't see many that your denomination refers to as Saints to be anything more than corrupters of the masses doesn't mean we are ambivilent towards those who have spread the Truth before us.

 

[Reformationist]

But, but, Calvin is not due any honor or veneration what so ever, that is where y'all err. It's vile to think he is...

LOL! I am well aware of why you'd consider it so. The fact that he spent a great portion of his life revealing the inherently unbiblical nature of your denomination's teachings isn't going to merit him a place of honor in your church's proceedings. Thankfully, it is God who justifies.

But with that said, I hope he did find mercy. The neat thing about Christianity is, we are never with out hope... it's virtue , you know... we only have it, because God gives it.

Awww...well, our hope is in the plan and purpose of God and those who see the truth in the teachings of Calvin recognize that God did great work through the man, despite your denomination's failure to recognize it.

 

[Rick Otto]

Go and grab one of your kids history books, it should be in there. The Pilgrims who came here came, came here to get away from authority and they set themselves up as "the" authority. They were very intolerant, they did not allow Catholics, Quakers, anyone who was not a Calvinist to practice their faith openly.

That is a fact-- jack.

I know Bill Murrey. You are no Bill Murrey, Ben~00!
how astute of you, a loyalist, to recognize the core issue - The Authority Problem of religion.
But in the blindness of a congregant's loyalty, in the depth of their affection, they miss another fact, that the ones who assert independance usualy do so after suffering intolerable abuse of a religiously colonistic & imperialistic Established Authority.
Even that truth is hard to edit completely out of children's books, history or otherwise.
It is a fact of life.

 

[lionroar0]

Acknowledging a person's godly contribution to the Kingdom of God has never been "a Catholic practice." It is a Christian practice and I am a Christian, by the grace of God, the same grace that you must appeal to for your inclusion in His family. I steal nothing from your anthropocentric exercise of faith, for I want no part of it.

Then stop calling them Saints. Calling people Saints with a capital "S" is a Catholic practice.

Then please show us where calling people Saints is part of your christian tradition.

I steal nothing from your anthropocentric exercise of faith, for I want no part of it

I guess you missed that part of Scripture where God became man but if you want no part of it.....


Peace

 

[lionroar0]

Is it that we're using a title you arrogantly feel is the exclusive purview of your denomination or is it simply that you feel that Calvin isn't worthy of veneration?

The anti-catholicism is really seeping theough now.

The EOC as well as the OO also use the same title for their Saints.

So no it has nothing to do with me feeling arrogantly about something that is not exclusive to my denomination.

or is it simply that you feel that Calvin isn't worthy of veneration?

Please show us where your christian tradition is in the practice of canonizing Saints.

And just so you don't continue to reveal your ignorance of Protestant perspective, we have always given honor to the Saints. Just because we don't see many that your denomination refers to as Saints to be anything more than corrupters of the masses doesn't mean we are ambivilent towards those who have spread the Truth before us.

Then you must show that it is the practice of you christian tradition to call people Saints with a capital "S". WHen has your christian tradition approved of calling people "S"aints.

I'm looking for objective evidence now.

Just because we don't see many that your denomination refers to as Saints to be anything more than corrupters of the masses doesn't mean we are ambivilent towards those who have spread the Truth before us

Then it is up to you to show that your christian tradition calls people Saints.

And I repeat I'm looking for objective evidence.


Peace

 

[lionroar0]

Wanna change how I deal with you and those of your persuasion? Start by changing yourself and your contemptuous attitude towards those who disagree with you. If you're unfamiliar with what I'm talking about, this very thread is a good place to see how you deal with others.

Who's moaning and groaning now?

ANd as yet there is no objective evidence that your christian tradition is in the practice of calling people Saints or even canonizing Saints.

Peace

 

[IamAdopted]

Then stop calling them Saints. Calling people Saints with a capital "S" is a Catholic practice.

Then please show us where calling people Saints is part of your christian tradition.



I guess you missed that part of Scripture where God became man but if you want no part of it.....


Peace

Well I would say that saints was used first by Paul and I know He was not catholic.. He was jewish. He also was an ambassador for Christ..

 

[lionroar0]

Well I would say that saints was used first by Paul and I know He was not catholic.. He was jewish. He also was an ambassador for Christ..

zing

I have no problem with the word saint. As it is used in the Scriptures to refer to belivers in Christ.

But we also have Saints with a capital "S" They are those that lived a heroic christian life. Such as the Apostles. As one example.

Peace

 

[IamAdopted]

zing

I have no problem with the word saint. As it is used in the Scriptures to refer to belivers in Christ.

But we also have Saints with a capital "S" They are those that lived a heroic christian life. Such as the Apostles. As one example.

Peace

Well I would say in scripture the only capitolization I see is on Apostle to apostle.. For saint is saint. All comes from the same source.. Christ. Then we have the Apostles and we have some apostles.. Different roles in the kingdom of God.. Saint we see is one tole.. Believers in Christ and sealed with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Reformationist]

Then stop calling them Saints. Calling people Saints with a capital "S" is a Catholic practice.

This is most ridiculous thing of all. We, even you, are well aware that referring to the children of God as saints is not only endorsed in Scripture, but a part of both of our sets of beliefs. Your issue is with the fact that we are capatalizing the word in reference to someone you and your denomination despise. That is all there is to your bluster. We show honor to Calvin because we believe he did a great thing in spreading the Truth of Scripture. That the byproduct of his doing so was the enlightenment of many to the unbiblical practices of your denomination was completely secondary. Identifying the unbiblical nature of the teachings of your denomination is simply an unavoidable fruit of spreading the truth.

Then please show us where calling people Saints is part of your christian tradition.

Any student of the Scriptures is well aware of the way God uses some people in greater ways than others. The glory for this, of course, belongs primarily and foremost to God Himself, who works all in all. That said, it is perfectly fine to acknowledge those who have made contributions to the Kingdom that are more visible and influential than others, for it helps us to emulate those we admire. You and your religious kin presume that because you have differentiated by the use of a grammatical device that such distinction is the domain of you and yours alone. It simply isn't and such presumption reveals nothing more than arrogance. In short, if you don't like what's on T.V., change the channel.

I guess you missed that part of Scripture where God became man but if you want no part of it.....

Wow...that was snappy. Makes absotely no sense nor does it have the first thing to do with our debate. The Scriptures are not from your denomination. They are from God. Even the early church recognized this with their acknowledgement that they received the truth of God rather than having established it as such. In case that was too rational for your unbalanced way of viewing things, I'll spell it out. I want everything to do with the Truth of God and nothing to do with your denomination's perversion of the Scriptures, or their own overblown and unjustified claim of authority.

Peace

Sure, peace. That's what you're after. Good one.

 

[Reformationist]

The anti-catholicism is really seeping theough now.

LOL! It would be just like a Catholic to miss the forest for the trees. What we see in this thread is nothing more than anti-Calvinism. Despite your posturing, the world doesn't revolve around your denomination.

The rest of your post was drivel, which doesn't necessarily distinguish it from the portion to which I did respond. Either way, your version of "objective" is only that which is endorsed by the leaders of your denomination. As they would never see Calvin as a saint worthy of admiration, I doubt I could provide anything that sufficed for your jaded understanding of "objective."

 

[Reformationist]

Tactic numbe 1 when losing a debate. Resort to adhominem.

If that be the case, then I'm sure you'll do the right thing and reprimand your fellow Catholic that she would learn to control her attacks.

And for the record, the fact that you think anyone does anything in these "debates" except lose shows your lack of understanding and an utter lack of love for others.

 

[Reformationist]

Well I would say in scripture the only capitolization I see is on Apostle to apostle.. For saint is saint. All comes from the same source.. Christ. Then we have the Apostles and we have some apostles.. Different roles in the kingdom of God.. Saint we see is one tole.. Believers in Christ and sealed with the Holy Spirit.

The issue at stake here is that those in the Catholic camp wish to protect what they see as their exclusive right to honor the man rather than the Creator. We recognize that one is a saint because of the work of God. They think that one is a saint because of their cooperation with God. While I think it's certainly fine to recognize and seek to emulate obedience, they do so with the clear intent to pay homage to the creation.

Wasn't there a passage in the Bible where someone bowed before an Apostle and they told them to stand up because they were only men? Maybe in Acts or something?

God bless

 

[Kristos]

Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

 

[lionroar0]

The issue at stake here is that those in the Catholic camp wish to protect what they see as their exclusive right to honor the man rather than the Creator. We recognize that one is a saint because of the work of God. They think that one is a saint because of their cooperation with God. While I think it's certainly fine to recognize and seek to emulate obedience, they do so with the clear intent to pay homage to the creation.

Again the anti-catholicims is showing through as the "Catholic camp" is not the only that canonises Saints.

Here is where your christian tradition tries to take that wich is a Catholic practice, because it is deficent.
Not only that but then it tries to build a straw man to try and explain why your tradition should recognize a Saint.

The issue at stake here is that those in the Catholic camp wish to protect what they see as their exclusive right to honor the man rather than the Creator. We recognize that one is a saint because of the work of God.

Break it down.

Here is the straw man.

The issue at stake here is that those in the Catholic camp wish to protect what they see as their exclusive right to honor the man rather than the Creator.

And here is where it tries to take something which is Catholic.

We recognize that one is a saint because of the work of God.

Hypocrisy!!!!

Peace