Spurgeon Preached Old Earth Creationism

[coffee4u]

Yes, keep inquiring.

And BTW, the name "doubtingmerle" is from 20 years ago. I have learned a lot in 20 years. I kept the name.

I see you are a Baptist, so I expect you respect Spurgeon. You might learn something from him. Spurgeon and the 19th century Christians may have been on to something.

How do you explain Jurassic fossil layers? There you will find dinosaurs and no mammals and no humans. People like Spurgeon heard of things like this and admitted the obvious-- there was a time when these strange animals lived on earth with no mammals, and no humans.

No man is perfect, not even Spurgeon sadly.

For an explanation of Jurassic fossil layers from a YE perspective you would need a creation scientist.
Creationism and creation science are two different schools. Creationisms main focus is scripture and exegesis. Creation science main focus is on the explanation of how and why from a young earth perspective.

Unfortunately I have never seen an actual creation scientist on here so articles have to do.
Perhaps this will have what you are after Why Don’t We Find Human & Dinosaur Fossils Together?
A creation scientist, like a secular scientist, only has this fallen world to study. The time before the flood is gone along with all its secrets.

admitted the obvious-- there was a time when these strange animals lived on earth with no mammals, and no humans.

There is nothing obvious about it at all.
Scripture says otherwise.

 

[coffee4u]

Do you think that dinosaurs existed? Do you think they lived in an era long before there were any humans?

As land animals they were created on day 6 before man.

 

[inquiring mind]

Yes, keep inquiring.

And BTW, the name "doubtingmerle" is from 20 years ago. I have learned a lot in 20 years. I kept the name.

I see you are a Baptist, so I expect you respect Spurgeon. You might learn something from him. Spurgeon and the 19th century Christians may have been on to something.

How do you explain Jurassic fossil layers? There you will find dinosaurs and no mammals and no humans. People like Spurgeon heard of things like this and admitted the obvious-- there was a time when these strange animals lived on earth with no mammals, and no humans.

Yes, I have read a lot about Spurgeon over the years. And, as I have said many times, I have no problem with the gap theory possibility although many biblical scholars have dismissed it because it puts death before sin. I have always considered that maybe sin is just a mankind relationship thing. Regardless of someone else’s interpretation, and an error on my part, the only obvious thing to me is that we don’t know how God used time in the past, we can’t even be sure that what we are experiencing today is linear according to our understanding.

 

[inquiring mind]

Do you think that dinosaurs existed?

Yes

Do you think they lived in an era long before there were any humans?

Long before... as we understand time. But, that doesn't mean it couldn't have been on a shorter or some parallel scale in God's time. God doesn't require a long timeframe to accomplish anything.

 

[Estrid]

No man is perfect, not even Spurgeon sadly.

For an explanation of Jurassic fossil layers from a YE perspective you would need a creation scientist.
Creationism and creation science are two different schools. Creationisms main focus is scripture and exegesis. Creation science main focus is on the explanation of how and why from a young earth perspective.

Unfortunately I have never seen an actual creation scientist on here so articles have to do.
Perhaps this will have what you are after Why Don’t We Find Human & Dinosaur Fossils Together?
A creation scientist, like a secular scientist, only has this fallen world to study. The time before the flood is gone along with all its secrets.
There is nothing obvious about it at all.
Scripture says otherwise.

Since intellectual integrity is
essemtial to science,"Creation
scientist" is an oxymoron in a
similar sense as "atheist christian
minister".

The human- dino link is a good
example of a pseudoscience
dishonest presentation.

A very minor example is the "no definitive
evidence", suggesrung there is evidence but
not ( yet ) any actual proof.

In fact there is zero evidence of any kind for
human or any other extant type of mammal
coexisting with the non avian dinosaurs.

 

[AV1611VET]

Since intellectual integrity is essential to science, "Creation scientist" is an oxymoron ...

No argument there.

Dino and human remains have never been found together btw.

That's because science stretches the timeline from 6000 to 13,700,000,000, then claims things didn't exist together.

It would be like stretching your street from 1 mile to 2.3 million miles, then claiming you don't have any neighbors.

 

[Estrid]

No man is perfect, not even Spurgeon sadly.

For an explanation of Jurassic fossil layers from a YE perspective you would need a creation scientist.
Creationism and creation science are two different schools. Creationisms main focus is scripture and exegesis. Creation science main focus is on the explanation of how and why from a young earth perspective.

Unfortunately I have never seen an actual creation scientist on here so articles have to do.
Perhaps this will have what you are after Why Don’t We Find Human & Dinosaur Fossils Together?
A creation scientist, like a secular scientist, only has this fallen world to study. The time before the flood is gone along with all its secrets.
There is nothing obvious about it at all.
Scripture says otherwise.

Time before the flood...there is zero evidence
of a biblical flood, and, more important, theres
ten thousand ways it is disproved far far beyond
any reasonable doubt.

There's also 10,000 ways to interpret scripture,
each of which claims to be the Truth.

 

[AV1611VET]

Time before the flood...there is zero evidence
of a biblical flood, and, more important, theres
ten thousand ways it is disproved far far beyond
any reasonable doubt.

There's also 10,000 ways to interpret scripture,
each of which claims to be the Truth.

Wow -- 0 to 10,000 in one post.

Good job.

I have to ask though:

Only 10,000?

Satan's falling down on the job, isn't he?

 

[doubtingmerle]

Yes

Long before... as we understand time. But, that doesn't mean it couldn't have been on a shorter or some parallel scale in God's time. God doesn't require a long timeframe to accomplish anything.

I was asking about time in the earth's timeframe.

In our timeframe, dinosaurs lived over 60 million years before humans.

Meanwhile, there were those mammal-like reptiles that were getting progressively more like mammals over many millions of years. Do you have any guess why mammal-like mammals look more and more like mammals as you get to the more recent rocks?

 

[doubtingmerle]

Yes, I have read a lot about Spurgeon over the years. And, as I have said many times, I have no problem with the gap theory possibility although many biblical scholars have dismissed it because it puts death before sin. I have always considered that maybe sin is just a mankind relationship thing. Regardless of someone else’s interpretation, and an error on my part, the only obvious thing to me is that we don’t know how God used time in the past, we can’t even be sure that what we are experiencing today is linear according to our understanding.

The gap theory may have made some sense when the earth was thought to have been destroyed at the end of each era to be rebuilt again. But now that we know that the earth and life have had a continuous history, with no periods when earth was void of all life, the gap theory makes no sense. When after dinosaurs was the earth without form and void? When after dinosaurs was there a need for the events of Gens 1:2 through the rest of the chapter?

 

[doubtingmerle]

There is nothing obvious about it at all.
Scripture says otherwise.

It was obvious to Spurgeon. It was obvious to many Christians in the 1800s. There was a time when these strange animals lived on earth with no mammals, and no humans.

The geologic column was discovered by Christians. Christians like Adam Sedgewick discovered various layers with distinct fossils that are very different from life today that were always in the same order. When Sedgewick and Spurgeon lived, this obvious fact was taken as truth. See Adam Sedgwick (1785-1873).

 

[doubtingmerle]

Perhaps this will have what you are after Why Don’t We Find Human & Dinosaur Fossils Together?

LOL. Your link says it was dumb luck. There is a reason the geologic column looks as it does. Worldwide there is a consistent pattern of fossils. And no, you cannot explain it all as dumb luck.

 

[inquiring mind]

I was asking about time in the earth's timeframe.

In our timeframe, dinosaurs lived over 60 million years before humans.

Meanwhile, there were those mammal-like reptiles that were getting progressively more like mammals over many millions of years. Do you have any guess why mammal-like mammals look more and more like mammals as you get to the more recent rocks?

That sounds like you're suggesting terminal mammals. Isn't that anti-evolutionary?

 

[inquiring mind]

The gap theory may have made some sense when the earth was thought to have been destroyed at the end of each era to be rebuilt again. But now that we know that the earth and life have had a continuous history, with no periods when earth was void of all life, the gap theory makes no sense. When after dinosaurs was the earth without form and void? When after dinosaurs was there a need for the events of Gens 1:2 through the rest of the chapter?

Since I have repeatedly said that we don't know, your comment 'now that we know' makes the discussion difficult.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Since I have repeatedly said that we don't know, your comment 'now that we know' makes the discussion difficult.

I am telling you what the evidence says. There has been a continuous history of life on planet of earth for hundreds of millions of years.

In Spurgeon's day, many people, including scientists, believed that there was a series of eras such as the Cambrian, the Devonian, and the Silurian. They thought that each era was wiped out in a catastrophe and replaced with a rebuilt earth. The evidence is now clear that this is not what happened. Instead, life continued on from one era to the next. See The Geologic Column.

 

[inquiring mind]

I am telling you what the evidence says. There has been a continuous history of life on planet of earth for hundreds of millions of years.

Yes, it would be hard to dispute academia’s recognized strata-order evidence. It’s the interpretation that it took hundreds of million years to do it that is in question. Think of rapid sedimentary conditions… like a global flood.

 

[driewerf]

I'll keep inquiring... looks like you're no longer doubting.

And how do you do that “Inquiring”? Do you map geological discontinuities? Do you apply mass spectroscopy to collected rock samples? Measure the radio activity of unstable isotopes?
Please tell, what does your Inquiry consists of?

 

[Estrid]

Yes, it would be hard to dispute academia’s recognized strata-order evidence. It’s the interpretation that it took hundreds of million years to do it that is in question. Think of rapid sedimentary conditions… like a global flood.

No kind of flood could produce the
conditions that exist as anyone who
actually studied would know.
They'd also know that the biblical
flood could not possibly have happened.

What you suggest is not actually thinking,
as such.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Yes, it would be hard to dispute academia’s recognized strata-order evidence. It’s the interpretation that it took hundreds of million years to do it that is in question. Think of rapid sedimentary conditions… like a global flood.

When I had asked you if you thought dinosaurs had lived long before humans, you replied, "Long before." So you seems to agree that dinosaurs could have lived long before there was a single human.

Your dispute seems to be with how long "long before" is. Why is that an important issue for you? After all, informed scientists have an overwhelming consensus that the earth is many millions of years old. Why do you dispute it?

I explain how we know the fossil record represents millions of years here.

Regarding flood geology, no, that does not explain it. I answer that here,

If the flood buried the dinosaurs, why does every dinosaur fossil fall in layers that date over 60 million years ago, and every human fossil in layers that date under 2 million years ago?

 

[doubtingmerle]

That sounds like you're suggesting terminal mammals. Isn't that anti-evolutionary?

I don't know what you mean by "terminal mammals". But if you are suggesting I was saying mammals are the final terminal result of evolution, then no, I am not saying that. Evolution led to us, and all other modern life. Where it leads from here, nobody knows.