Spoken into being, but in what language?

[Jamdoc]

I think many people myself included mistake it when scripture says that God just said "let there be..." and it happened, thinking he spoke it just like a human language, and it just happened, like magic words.
But now that I think of it, He wasn't speaking in a language as we see language. There are many "Languages" in nature. The Genetic code was the first thing that came into my mind. It IS a language, with sequences of 3 bases each coding for a different "letter" , with start and stop codons that become protein "words". Beneath that there's the language of chemistry, with each element also seeming like a different letter in a broad alphabet, and forming compounds and molecules being like words, chemical reactions become like phrases or sentences. Beneath that, subatomic particles and energy in different wavelengths, also a language of their own. Every color you see is just mixes of photons at different wavelengths. Physics is then a language as well. So He didn't say "let there be light" in English, it wasn't even auditory as it was not vibrational waves of matter through a medium, there wasn't even matter to transmit an audible vibration at that point. Our perception of sound is just an interpretation of those vibrations, but that is not how God spoke, like 1 human to another with the air transmitting the vibrations. He spoke in all wavelengths of photons, the language of electromagnetic energy if you will.

 

[SkyWriting]

I think many people myself included mistake it when scripture says that God just said "let there be..." and it happened, thinking he spoke it just like a human language, and it just happened, like magic words.

When I checked into that, no magic words were found.
Much more like a systematic process.

Genesis 1:27
HEB: וַיִּבְרָ֨א אֱלֹהִ֤ים ׀ אֶת־
NAS: God created man in His own image,
KJV: So God created man in his [own] image,
INT: created God man

Genesis 1:27
HEB: בְּצֶ֥לֶם אֱלֹהִ֖ים בָּרָ֣א אֹת֑וֹ זָכָ֥ר
NAS: of God He created him; male
KJV: of God created he him; male
INT: the image of God created male and female

choose, create creator, cut down, dispatch, do, make fat

A primitive root; (absolutely) to create;
(qualified) to cut down (a wood), select,
feed (as formative processes) -- choose,
create (creator), cut down, dispatch, do,
make (fat).

 

[Jamdoc]

When I checked into that, no magic words were found.
Much more like a systematic process.

Genesis 1:27
HEB: וַיִּבְרָ֨א אֱלֹהִ֤ים ׀ אֶת־
NAS: God created man in His own image,
KJV: So God created man in his [own] image,
INT: created God man

Genesis 1:27
HEB: בְּצֶ֥לֶם אֱלֹהִ֖ים בָּרָ֣א אֹת֑וֹ זָכָ֥ר
NAS: of God He created him; male
KJV: of God created he him; male
INT: the image of God created male and female

choose, create creator, cut down, dispatch, do, make fat

A primitive root; (absolutely) to create;
(qualified) to cut down (a wood), select,
feed (as formative processes) -- choose,
create (creator), cut down, dispatch, do,
make (fat).

Yeah, but it's often interpreted as being spoken into existence with an audible human language like magic words. Matthew 4:4 makes more sense when you realize He is not talking about audible human language, just vibrational waves through a fluid, but rather that the very matter that composes you are "words" of God.

 

[Tolworth John]

Yeah, but it's often interpreted as being spoken into existence with an audible human language like magic words. Matthew 4:4 makes more sense when you realize He is not talking about audible human language, just vibrational waves through a fluid, but rather that the very matter that composes you are "words" of God.

No it is not interpreted as being spoken words, it is what God told us.
God is in heaven, a place where we will one day also be. So it follows that there is an atmosphere others and that God could speak the words that caused everything to come into being.

 

[Jamdoc]

No it is not interpreted as being spoken words, it is what God told us.
God is in heaven, a place where we will one day also be. So it follows that there is an atmosphere others and that God could speak the words that caused everything to come into being.

DNA and the genetic code is the "language" of all life on earth, so now that I think of that, I don't think it was audible speech in any human language, but rather "spoken" in the very particles that make things up. Speech, is just the act of transmitting an idea from you to something else, it doesn't always have to be audible in an atmosphere. Typing is still speech, sign language is still speech, thinking directed at God in prayer is still speech. Language is just the format in which you convey that idea into a meaning, or in this case, being. There are many "languages" in reality that simply do not have to exist if it's all created by God saying "Let there be..." in English. But every facet of reality is composed of its own language, there's codes that behave like language for everything we know about the universe, we describe it in mathematical terms, as an almost "universal" language, that's our "translation" if you will. Those languages exist because that is what God spoke them in, not soundwaves through atmosphere.

 

[Religiot]

I think many people myself included mistake it when scripture says that God just said "let there be..." and it happened, thinking he spoke it just like a human language, and it just happened, like magic words.
But now that I think of it, He wasn't speaking in a language as we see language. There are many "Languages" in nature. The Genetic code was the first thing that came into my mind. It IS a language, with sequences of 3 bases each coding for a different "letter" , with start and stop codons that become protein "words". Beneath that there's the language of chemistry, with each element also seeming like a different letter in a broad alphabet, and forming compounds and molecules being like words, chemical reactions become like phrases or sentences. Beneath that, subatomic particles and energy in different wavelengths, also a language of their own. Every color you see is just mixes of photons at different wavelengths. Physics is then a language as well. So He didn't say "let there be light" in English, it wasn't even auditory as it was not vibrational waves of matter through a medium, there wasn't even matter to transmit an audible vibration at that point. Our perception of sound is just an interpretation of those vibrations, but that is not how God spoke, like 1 human to another with the air transmitting the vibrations. He spoke in all wavelengths of photons, the language of electromagnetic energy if you will.

Beware, brother, for you have imagined yourself to know how God spoke.

You don't know whether His voice caused anything to vibrate, or even if the language He spoke was actually Hebrew--God invented language, and spoke to man in the Garden, and all men spoke but one language, which was the same language God spoke in the Garden, but afterward, God confused the language of men, causing them to speak many languages that He made up; and He separated the conglomeration of the son's of Noah in one day...

Don't assert conjectures, brother, just be silent on what the Spirit has left as silent, otherwise, you will open the door to temptation.

Godspeed.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I don't think it's an accident that the Fourth Evangelist chooses to begin his prologue by saying en arche, "in the beginning". Christians throughout the centuries have seen here a call back to Genesis 1, where in the beginning God creates the heavens and the earth. But here the Evangelist writes in the beginning is the Logos, the Divine Word. And continues, "All things were made through Him, and without Him was not any thing made that was made." (verse 3)

Here is the Creative Word, the Word by which all things came to be. For we confess in the Creed "One God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things seen and unseen" and also "in one Lord Jesus Christ ... through Him all things were made" and also "the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver-of-Life"

So that the creative work of the Trinity is this: All things made by the Father, through His Word, in the Spirit. So we read that when the earth was still a primordial waste the Spirit of God "hovered over the waters", and God "said" "Let there be..." and there was.

"We acknowledge the Trinity, holy and perfect, to consist of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. In this Trinity there is no intrusion of any alien element or of anything from outside, nor is the Trinity a blend of creative and created being. It is a wholly creative and energizing reality, self-consistent and undivided in its active power, for the Father makes all things through the Word and in the Holy Spirit, and in this way the unity of the holy Trinity is preserved. Accordingly, in the Church, one God is preached, one God who is above all things and through all things and in all things. God is above all things as Father, for he is principle and source; he is through all things through the Word; and he is in all things in the Holy Spirit." - St. Athanasius, Epistle 1 to Serapion, 28

And therefore, all which came to be came to be by the Word, Jesus Christ our Lord.

St. Paul says,

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. And He is the head of the body, the Church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything He might be preeminent." - Colossians 1:15-18

And the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews says,

"He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of His Person, and He upholds the universe by the word of His power." - Hebrews 1:3a

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Jamdoc]

Beware, brother, for you have imagined yourself to know how God spoke.

You don't know whether His voice caused anything to vibrate, or even if the language He spoke was actually Hebrew--God invented language, and spoke to man in the Garden, and all men spoke but one language, which was the same language God spoke in the Garden, but afterward, God confused the language of men, causing them to speak many languages that He made up; and He separated the conglomeration of the son's of Noah in one day...

Don't assert conjectures, brother, just be silent on what the Spirit has left as silent, otherwise, you will open the door to temptation.

Godspeed.

This was an epiphany in meditating on the word, and it was such a breakthrough that I felt a need to share it.
Genesis 1, Matthew 4:4 (referencing Deuteronomy 8:3), Matthew 24:35, John 1:1, and especially John 1:14
Audible speech/vibrations in the air are not the only words, and human languages aren't the only speech.
Science and nature are full of languages that we discover but God created. The bible, what we call the Word of God, is a communication from Him to us to understand Him and be redeemed, but it is not every single word that God has ever "spoke" or communicated. We don't know everything that He told Adam, much less anything in languages we don't speak and may have not even discovered in nature as what comprises our universe yet.

I could be wrong but I don't think God was speaking in any human language. That makes Him to be a magician (who had ears to hear Him?). Before this I thought of God as a scientist, but disconnected His speech from His actions. Now I see Him as a linguist of sorts, creating new languages that we find in nature, and creating human speech and languages. It reconciles the witness of God through His creation and the witness of God through the bible. I have been wanting to do that for a long time. Because the way people are.. they either have to reject what nature tells us about God, or reject what the bible tells us about God. The first spiritualizes God into an abstraction that makes God and all His works immaterial, and leaves God creating things without any purpose. The second leads to disbelief in God entirely. God exists and His works are material, He created a physical, material universe. Both witnesses are valid and should be reconciled, not 1 neglected in favor of another.

 

[ZNP]

I think many people myself included mistake it when scripture says that God just said "let there be..." and it happened, thinking he spoke it just like a human language, and it just happened, like magic words.
But now that I think of it, He wasn't speaking in a language as we see language. There are many "Languages" in nature. The Genetic code was the first thing that came into my mind. It IS a language, with sequences of 3 bases each coding for a different "letter" , with start and stop codons that become protein "words". Beneath that there's the language of chemistry, with each element also seeming like a different letter in a broad alphabet, and forming compounds and molecules being like words, chemical reactions become like phrases or sentences. Beneath that, subatomic particles and energy in different wavelengths, also a language of their own. Every color you see is just mixes of photons at different wavelengths. Physics is then a language as well. So He didn't say "let there be light" in English, it wasn't even auditory as it was not vibrational waves of matter through a medium, there wasn't even matter to transmit an audible vibration at that point. Our perception of sound is just an interpretation of those vibrations, but that is not how God spoke, like 1 human to another with the air transmitting the vibrations. He spoke in all wavelengths of photons, the language of electromagnetic energy if you will.

The language is the operating system of the universe.

 

[Der Alte]

Probably spoken in the same language the disciples did when everyone heard them speaking in their own language.

 

[Jamdoc]

Probably spoken in the same language the disciples did when everyone heard them speaking in their own language.

Probably not because speaking in tongues I take to mean real languages, languages that the apostles may have not been trained in but now could speak in in order to spread the gospel.
Not this inane babbling you see with televangelists.

 

[Jamdoc]

The language is the operating system of the universe.

which is basically math, with dialects of particle physics, electromagnetism, newtonian physics, chemistry, biochemistry, and genetic code.

 

[Religiot]

This was an epiphany in meditating on the word, and it was such a breakthrough that I felt a need to share it.
Genesis 1, Matthew 4:4 (referencing Deuteronomy 8:3), Matthew 24:35, John 1:1, and especially John 1:14
Audible speech/vibrations in the air are not the only words, and human languages aren't the only speech.
Science and nature are full of languages that we discover but God created. The bible, what we call the Word of God, is a communication from Him to us to understand Him and be redeemed, but it is not every single word that God has ever "spoke" or communicated. We don't know everything that He told Adam, much less anything in languages we don't speak and may have not even discovered in nature as what comprises our universe yet.

I could be wrong but I don't think God was speaking in any human language. That makes Him to be a magician (who had ears to hear Him?). Before this I thought of God as a scientist, but disconnected His speech from His actions. Now I see Him as a linguist of sorts, creating new languages that we find in nature, and creating human speech and languages. It reconciles the witness of God through His creation and the witness of God through the bible. I have been wanting to do that for a long time. Because the way people are.. they either have to reject what nature tells us about God, or reject what the bible tells us about God. The first spiritualizes God into an abstraction that makes God and all His works immaterial, and leaves God creating things without any purpose. The second leads to disbelief in God entirely. God exists and His works are material, He created a physical, material universe. Both witnesses are valid and should be reconciled, not 1 neglected in favor of another.

Brother, I appreciate your excitement about your realizations, sincerely.

I was just admonishing you to be careful about getting carried away by your imagination, to keep from making declarations about God that He has not made about Himself.

 

[ZNP]

which is basically math, with dialects of particle physics, electromagnetism, newtonian physics, chemistry, biochemistry, and genetic code.

Once again it suggests that the universe as we know it is a computer simulation, the code was written by God.

 

[Jamdoc]

Brother, I appreciate your excitement about your realizations, sincerely.

I was just admonishing you to be careful about getting carried away by your imagination, to keep from making declarations about God that He has not made about Himself.

sure, but scipture says things exist because of the words of God. If they were audible human language words, then there'd be a lot of things created in vain, like the fact that we share so much common DNA with other animals. It becomes NOT in vain if the "words" spoken were not hebrew, or english or some other variation of sound waves traveling through a fluid, but rather that we're spoken in the same language, genetic code, a language that is ubiquitous to ALL life. Even RNA based viruses use 1 different nucleotide base as a substitution but have the same codon structure.
If the mechanism of creation was a human language; soundwaves traveling through a fluid, there is no reason for that amount of conservation of genetics.we could all operate on completely different genetic systems, different bases, different code, a chimpanzee could operate on a 6 nucleotide base code rather than the same 4 as we operate on, they could have different codon combinations, but instead the foundation is the same, why? So we can create chimeras? Abominations against God in a lab? It has purpose and reason if we're all the same language, because that is the means He used to create us.

 

[Jamdoc]

Once again it suggests that the universe as we know it is a computer simulation, the code was written by God.

That's an analogy perhaps. A lot of reality does kind of operate on its own according to programmed natural laws like entropy. The mark of a brilliant designer, to design something and let it run.

 

[Tolworth John]

DNA and the genetic code is the "language" of all life on earth, so now that I think of that, I don't think it was audible speech in any human language, but rather "spoken" in the very particles that make things up. Speech, is just the act of transmitting an idea from you to something else, it doesn't always have to be audible in an atmosphere. Typing is still speech, sign language is still speech, thinking directed at God in prayer is still speech. Language is just the format in which you convey that idea into a meaning, or in this case, being. There are many "languages" in reality that simply do not have to exist if it's all created by God saying "Let there be..." in English. But every facet of reality is composed of its own language, there's codes that behave like language for everything we know about the universe, we describe it in mathematical terms, as an almost "universal" language, that's our "translation" if you will. Those languages exist because that is what God spoke them in, not soundwaves through atmosphere.

Which is basically what I and the Bible said, God spoke and it was so.

 

[Jamdoc]

Which is basically what I and the Bible said, God spoke and it was so.

except that you see it as vocal words, sound waves traveling through a fluid, like human speech. None of the languages I described involve sound waves traveling through a fluid.

 

[Religiot]

sure, but scipture says things exist because of the words of God. If they were audible human language words, then there'd be a lot of things created in vain, like the fact that we share so much common DNA with other animals. It becomes NOT in vain if the "words" spoken were not hebrew, or english or some other variation of sound waves traveling through a fluid, but rather that we're spoken in the same language, genetic code, a language that is ubiquitous to ALL life. Even RNA based viruses use 1 different nucleotide base as a substitution but have the same codon structure.
If the mechanism of creation was a human language; soundwaves traveling through a fluid, there is no reason for that amount of conservation of genetics.we could all operate on completely different genetic systems, different bases, different code, a chimpanzee could operate on a 6 nucleotide base code rather than the same 4 as we operate on, they could have different codon combinations, but instead the foundation is the same, why? So we can create chimeras? Abominations against God in a lab? It has purpose and reason if we're all the same language, because that is the means He used to create us.

I understand hypothesis, and I think it is a very interesting hypothesis.

What you've said makes a lot of sense to me, and I do not object to it on any logical grounds, but simply that you keep yourself from asserting anything, that God has not said about Himself.

Sincerely, your hypothesis is very good, and makes a lot of sense.

 

[ZNP]

except that you see it as vocal words, sound waves traveling through a fluid, like human speech. None of the languages I described involve sound waves traveling through a fluid.

The mountains and plates of the earth all depict sound waves traveling through a fluid.