Split brain patients and belief in god

[Romans 13:3]

Pushing back the frontiers of ignorance does have to equate to tearing down the walls of faith. Anyone who cannot reconcile proven science with their faith has either a weak mind or weak faith. I know the a dead person cannot resurrect from the dead. That is what makes the one time it did happen so miraculous. ( and please spare me the resurrection stories of other faith traditions)

I personally have no need to have 100% reconciliation between what I KNOW and what I BELIEVE. When we are dead it will become evident (or not matter) which of us is correct. Then we will know. As it will likely never be proved that God exists, I will continue to err on the side of caution and believe. Good luck on your choice, who know, our paths may well cross. Respectfully, Don

 

[heron]

Moderator - please close this thread. Problem solved.

 

[JGL53]

...it will likely never be proved that God exists, I will continue to err on the side of caution and believe. Good luck on your choice...

Pascal's Wager? Don, Don, Don - I am SO disappointed in you as a Christian. You are just not the role model that the atheist such as myself so desperately and obviously needs.

God, if he values honesty and sincerity, will not accept your "bet". Personally, I hate gambling. Maybe god will give me a pass for at least being sincere. As you indicated "Who can know until we die?" Now THAT cannot be argued with.

I.e., I just put my faith in the Lord - assuming he is there - which I don't believe he is - but who knows - but gambling seems wrong...

 

[JGL53]

Indeed. And thanks for NOT attempting to specify wherein the brain model that you posted the "soul" resides. That would have opened a whole new can of theological worms and started a new fishing expedition to nowhere.

 

[BigNorsk]

Here's the thing. God didn't tell us to sit around staring at our navels and speculate endlessly about the specific standing of each and every individual with God.

We inherently never know for certain of anyone else's standing. That is God's domain. And he will do what is in accordance with his nature.

If the person believes, I have no reason to decide that because the other side of his brain doesn't that he will be lost. I don't see how that is much different from the doubt that others experience.

In the end salvation is God's domain, not a thing to speculate about.

We would certainly continue to share God's Word with both sides of the individual's brain. I suppose he would have the interesting situation of being able to proselytize himself. But in the end, if he has received the Holy Spirit, been united with Christ in death and life, then I don't see where the unbelieving side of his brain would have any particular power over God, do you?

Marv

 

[heron]

That would have opened a whole new can of theological worms and started a new fishing expedition to nowhere.

Yes, worm visuals exceed my limit on tastefulness.

I seriously doubt that the speaker saw the two hemispheres as independently functional. There are studies on activity within the brain that extend beyond the channels of neurons, cells and fluids. For instance, memory of a cell.... matching DNA in each cell.... I think the body hums in more united function that we are able to see.

http://www.uchospitals.edu/news/1999/19990311-tcell-memory.html

Pushing back the frontiers of ignorance does have to equate to tearing down the walls of faith.

An agnostic would not expect complete rationality of other religions. Public schools teach respect for all cultures and beliefs, no matter how odd the customs and statements are. I think that Christianity does relatively well in the realm of rationality in religion. (Not trying to start something up here... just exercise restraint....)

We inherently never know for certain of anyone else's standing.

That's the theology you're looking for. It might not be the answer you want, but others' eternal status is not up to us.

It's worth thinking about, worth exploring, but I doubt any of our answers can be conclusive.

 

[ebia]

I would be interested in the christian viewpoint, or apologetics, for this phenomenon identified by prominent brain researcher V.S. Ramachandran - i.e., both belief and disbelief existing in the same person at the same time, and whether half a person can go to heaven and the other half to hell - or not. Thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DCSJdhy3-0

I don't think we have enough detail about the mechanics of 'salvation' to answer the question. The best we can do is fall back to some basic principles. God wishes to save all; in some way that salvation is dependent upon faith in him to work the necessary transformation. Perhaps the answer lies in looking beyond the now - would the resurrected, healed, person be a transformed disciple of Christ? I suspect so - "Goodness is stronger than evil; love is stronger than hate; light is stronger than darkness; life is stronger than death." (as Archbishop Desmond Tutu puts it).

 

[heron]

I don't think we have enough detail about the mechanics of 'salvation' to answer the question. The best we can do is fall back to some basic principles. God wishes to save all; in some way that salvation is dependent upon faith in him to work the necessary transformation.

Yes.
Redemption was something God offered us. Jesus paid the price for our redemption.

The world has grown so accustomed to the concept of eternal life in heaven, that everyone seems to have a sense of entitlement, even Christians. The talk is not "It would be amazing to have a new painless life beyond my earthly one," but "I'm in, and I'll make sure the rest of my pack gets in too." Almost like we paid off the bouncer.

Do a little digging on ancient Jewish beliefs about the afterlife -- the terminology was not saved vs. unsaved. Jesus offered paradise to us, as an alternative to the grave.

In Jesus' story about Lazarus in the grave, there was a rich man who denied a poor man... the man's attitude and selfishness separated him.

 

[JGL53]

Yes.
Redemption was something God offered us. Jesus paid the price for our redemption.

The world has grown so accustomed to the concept of eternal life in heaven, that everyone seems to have a sense of entitlement, even Christians. The talk is not "It would be amazing to have a new painless life beyond my earthly one," but "I'm in, and I'll make sure the rest of my pack gets in too." Almost like we paid off the bouncer.

Do a little digging on ancient Jewish beliefs about the afterlife -- the terminology was not saved vs. unsaved. Jesus offered paradise to us, as an alternative to the grave.

In Jesus' story about Lazarus in the grave, there was a rich man who denied a poor man... the man's attitude and selfishness separated him.

I suppose I read too much comparative mythology to immediately appreciate your ontological thrust here, so to speak.

So help me out - to what degree are you speaking metaphorically here, and to what degree do you believe you are speaking of historical happenings?

 

[heron]

I suppose I read too much comparative mythology to immediately appreciate your ontological thrust here, so to speak.

Not sure why you're calling it ontological -- you asked a group of Christians to explain the spiritual connotations of a physical event. The premise is already established.

to what degree are you speaking metaphorically here, and to what degree do you believe you are speaking of historical happenings?

Literary records.

In Judaism, heaven is the place where God resides, and "the heavens" are the areas of sky above us. It was not a place where people resided.

When people died, their destination (in the Old Testament) was referred to as "the grave," Sheol, and "the bosom of Abraham."

Lu 16
Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried.

In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.

And he cried out and said, `Father [SIZE=-1][/SIZE]Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'

But Abraham said, `Child, remember that during [SIZE=-1][/SIZE]your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.

`And besides [SIZE=-1] [/SIZE] all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.

Jesus spoke out of Jewish tradition.

Abraham's Bosom
http://www.studylight.org/dic/ebd/view.cgi?number=T55
http://www.studylight.org/dic/hbd/view.cgi?number=T62

Sheol (65 uses of the word)
http://www.studylight.org/dic/hbd/view.cgi?number=T5741
http://www.studylight.org/dic/sbd/view.cgi?number=T1934
http://www.studylight.org/con/ntb/view.cgi?number=T2285

Hades (Greek, NT)
http://www.studylight.org/dic/ebd/view.cgi?number=T1576
http://www.studylight.org/enc/isb/view.cgi?number=T3989

 

[JGL53]

Not sure why you're calling it ontological -- you asked a group of Christians to explain the spiritual connotations of a physical event. The premise is already established...

I was referring to your previous post which was off topic and seemed to focus only on the supposed wonderfulness of the concept of an "afterlife" itself, as opposed to the effect of split-brain situation upon it.

The rest of your post above also seems rather focused on the idea of how desirous an "afterlife" obvious is and how and why we should be involved in attending to this phenomenon is terms of how it might play out regarding our individuals actions and reactions to scripture of the Christian variety, ever how interpreted by whomever at whichever historical time. Or something like that.

Me, I am not so hot for an afterlife, which seems out of bounds of human knowledge anyways. Why are you so concerned with achieving death one day. Is it that scary to you? Its not scary to me. I reconciled myself to the fact that I was mortal three or more decades ago.