Spiritual Weights and Burdens

[k4c]

One thing I have notice within SDA churches, at least in the New England area, is that there is a deadness of life. I think it's because of the things that are being taught and believed regarding outward expression of individuallity through manner of dress, praise and worship, food restrictions to the point of straining at a gnat, showing appreciation and praise through clapping and so on.

The lack of freedom of personal expression in these areas through the teachings and beliefs we hold produce a subconscience spirit of oppression that subtly, but powerfully, manifests itself in the life and community of the believers.

Oppression: the feeling of being heavily burdened, mentally or physically, by troubles, adverse conditions, anxiety, etc.

Subtly: 1. So slight as to be difficult to detect or describe; elusive:
2. Difficult to understand; abstruse:
3. Able to make fine distinctions:
4. Operating in a hidden, usually injurious way; insidious:

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Definitely a problem within all conservative congregations which is why there are the liberal break-a-ways that swing it too far in the other direction, imo.

 

[k4c]

Definitely a problem within all conservative congregations which is why there are the liberal break-a-ways that swing it too far in the other direction, imo.

Amen...man will be man.

 

[JohnMarsten]

I guess this spiritual deadness is omnipresent...

its because of the church structure and EGW... I have given it a lot of thought and come to this conclusion...

Nothing can be done about it

One thing I have notice within SDA churches, at least in the New England area, is that there is a deadness of life. I think it's because of the things that are being taught and believed regarding outward expression of individuallity through manner of dress, praise and worship, food restrictions to the point of straining at a gnat, showing appreciation and praise through clapping and so on.

The lack of freedom of personal expression in these areas through the teachings and beliefs we hold produce a subconscience spirit of oppression that subtly, but powerfully, manifests itself in the life and community of the believers.

Oppression: the feeling of being heavily burdened, mentally or physically, by troubles, adverse conditions, anxiety, etc.

Subtly: 1. So slight as to be difficult to detect or describe; elusive:
2. Difficult to understand; abstruse:
3. Able to make fine distinctions:
4. Operating in a hidden, usually injurious way; insidious:

 

[k4c]

I guess this spiritual deadness is omnipresent...

its because of the church structure and EGW... I have given it a lot of thought and come to this conclusion...

Nothing can be done about it

There is cure...you have to start teaching correct things to the new people coming in and reteach those who are there. After several years of this the old wine skin will die off and the new wine skin will be left. It won't be a short process nor will it be a peaceful journey.

 

[JohnMarsten]

There is cure...you have to start teaching correct things to the new people coming in and reteach those who are there. After several years of this the old wine skin will die off and the new wine skin will be left. It won't be a short process nor will it be a peaceful journey.

Of course, nothing is impossible for the Lord...

IMHO the situation revolves around a certain mechanic:

Generally speaking growth within the SDA church takes place very sloly (mostly). Lets say there is a congregation holding 70 brethren and sistren. The whole congregation is more or less dead in their spirituality. If a newcomer steps in, he or she will naturally be very interested, if they had been touched by the Lord, they might even be very enthusiastic, speaking a lot about Jesus and what He has done in their life.

- I have met a few people of those (I think I even might be one of them), they wondered why the other people are not like them,but rather restricted, on a distance and stuff. One guy received an answer from a pastor that with time people grow/mature spiritually and have therefore a new/different experience and it just looks differently...

So with time they become more or less alike in their spiritual deadness... cause its like fire if you have the whole fire burning you will have a very bright fire but if you throw a burning stick into a fireplace that has already burned down, the stick will also not last very long (maybe not the best metaphor but still...)

 

[JohnMarsten]

and btw,

Of course I believe that unnecessary weights and burdens might have a big impact on the same...

 

[k4c]

Of course, nothing is impossible for the Lord...

IMHO the situation revolves around a certain mechanic:

Generally speaking growth within the SDA church takes place very sloly (mostly). Lets say there is a congregation holding 70 brethren and sistren. The whole congregation is more or less dead in their spirituality. If a newcomer steps in, he or she will naturally be very interested, if they had been touched by the Lord, they might even be very enthusiastic, speaking a lot about Jesus and what He has done in their life.

- I have met a few people of those (I think I even might be one of them), they wondered why the other people are not like them,but rather restricted, on a distance and stuff. One guy received an answer from a pastor that with time people grow/mature spiritually and have therefore a new/different experience and it just looks differently...

So with time they become more or less alike in their spiritual deadness... cause its like fire if you have the whole fire burning you will have a very bright fire but if you throw a burning stick into a fireplace that has already burned down, the stick will also not last very long (maybe not the best metaphor but still...)

Wisdom from above...

Most people that come into the SDA are either born into it or they come in through he prophecy seminars. Propecy is very complelling and hard to deny the problem is that they don't experience the deadness until they become involved with a church fellowship and then over time they start to experience they don't touch, don't taste, don't clap, don't, don't, don't...

 

[JohnMarsten]

Wisdom from above...

Most people that come into the SDA are either born into it or they come in through he prophecy seminars. Propecy is very complelling and hard to deny the problem is that they don't experience the deadness until they become involved with a church fellowship and then over time they start to experience they don't touch, don't taste, don't clap, don't, don't, don't...

Yep, and it really grieves me...

Another thing that is quite disturbing is the way pastors are being shaped to maintain the order of the church. They are taught to keep it all the same all the way long.

CHurch services are quite predictable as such.

BTW I was a sabbath school teacher for a rather short time (people actually did like my classes ) what I realized not too long into the game is that the less I prepared myself the better the classes, one time I got a call from a brother at 8:30 (one hour before the service) to replace him, I opened up the lessons books, got a short glimpse just to know what its generally about, pretty good lesson afterward. And what I realized is that these lesson provide just the framework for a discussion. My discussions were very lively because I not only allowed digressions but also encouraged them and even started them, people were really happy. I believe it was the Holy Spirit who took over, or in other words encouraged the believers,

However, the reality is very different, and I must laugh when I see those "lame" teachers or pastors who will kill any digression at its roots, claiming that the course of the lesson needs to be maintained. Sometimes they said if we wanna have a chat we can meet in the afternoon yep, I wanna see them meeting... its really funny cause once you play strictly by "the rules" you will get a rigid lesson that just revolves around the questions of the lessons and the answers give below... very demanding...

but thats my experience and impression.. what is your view?

 

[k4c]

Yep, and it really grieves me...

Another thing that is quite disturbing is the way pastors are being shaped to maintain the order of the church. They are taught to keep it all the same all the way long.

CHurch services are quite predictable as such.

BTW I was a sabbath school teacher for a rather short time (people actually did like my classes ) what I realized not too long into the game is that the less I prepared myself the better the classes, one time I got a call from a brother at 8:30 (one hour before the service) to replace him, I opened up the lessons books, got a short glimpse just to know what its generally about, pretty good lesson afterward. And what I realized is that these lesson provide just the framework for a discussion. My discussions were very lively because I not only allowed digressions but also encouraged them and even started them, people were really happy. I believe it was the Holy Spirit who took over, or in other words encouraged the believers,

However, the reality is very different, and I must laugh when I see those "lame" teachers or pastors who will kill any digression at its roots, claiming that the course of the lesson needs to be maintained. Sometimes they said if we wanna have a chat we can meet in the afternoon yep, I wanna see them meeting... its really funny cause once you play strictly by "the rules" you will get a rigid lesson that just revolves around the questions of the lessons and the answers give below... very demanding...

but thats my experience and impression.. what is your view?

I really didn't attend adult sabbath school because I was teaching youth sabbath school. But my past experience with adult sabbath school is that they're trying to cover too much in those sabbat school quarterlies. I also found adult sabbath school to be very argumentative. Some of the things people say are quite bazaar.

 

[JohnMarsten]

I really didn't attend adult sabbath school because I was teaching youth sabbath school. But my past experience with adult sabbath school is that they're trying to cover too much in those sabbat school quarterlies. I also found adult sabbath school to be very argumentative. Some of the things people say are quite bazaar.

Could be, I havent frequented it much lately... for me, it is too strictly topic based with no space for anything else... and its predictable...

 

[k4c]

Could be, I havent frequented it much lately... for me, it is too strictly topic based with no space for anything else... and its predictable...

Everyone is different, I guess that's what makes the world go around.

 

[JohnMarsten]

Everyone is different, I guess that's what makes the world go around.

I guess so too, nothing will chang though as old habit die hard...

 

[stinsonmarri]

Happy Sabbath to All:

I must say when I was a little girl growing up in the SDA Church in New Haven CT it was boring to say the lease. The black churches in the fifities tried to relate to the White culture. But things change and when I return to my homeland the south I was glad. My Church Maranatha was a gospel, shouting, clapping spiritual feeling church. We brought in drums and eventually had a church band. Now even the most conservative Church in Atlanta has changed.

Blacks from the Islands were cold and stuck in the mud but the youth have change as well. We use to visit and sing at other first day churches and it makes a different. The only problem I have today is wearing jewlry on the Sabbath. I do not think its wrong to wear jewlry but we take it too far and we look out of place. But black ministers have always preached well and I have enjoy some white pastors who can truly preach. I think cultures are different in other countries outside of USA. But we all should make a joyful noise with praise to the Most High!

Blessings,
stinsonmarri

 

[E.T.Elijah]

I grew up in a conservative baptist church. We had song service, but for the most part there wasn't any clapping, dancing, swaying, etc. It is much like the services I have attended within the Adventists churches I have been to. Do I find them dead, not in the least. I come to church to worship God, to be in His house, and to fellowship with other believers. If someone wants to clap or move around, I have no problem with that, as long as it doesn't become a distraction from the real reason we come together. And the same goes for those who want to just sit there and sleep. Each of us individually makes church what we want it to be. I have sat through a few boring sermons, but upon reflecting, it wasn't the messege so much as it was my attittude at the time. If my heart wasn't really wasn't into being there, no song or messege was going to hit home so to speak. But the times that I come with a joy in my heart to seek the Lord, I am moved beyond words. Being in a lay-led church I've listened to messeges given by persons who were not well spoken and have been moved to tears. Likewise I have listened to some of the most famous evangelists the Adventist church has to offer and have had a hard time keeping awake. Just recently I have found that I pray as I am driving to church that God will remind me throughout the service why I am there. And it is to be with Him. He seems to have a way of making me forget about all the other stuff going on and focus on Him (even when I am sitting there with 4 kids)

 

[JohnMarsten]

I generally agree with you, sermons are what you make them... however, the services that I have known I actually quite stiff and I realized that pastors and even brethren speak against any other kind of worship. Thats not for me... I will have to keep looking then...

I grew up in a conservative baptist church. We had song service, but for the most part there wasn't any clapping, dancing, swaying, etc. It is much like the services I have attended within the Adventists churches I have been to. Do I find them dead, not in the least. I come to church to worship God, to be in His house, and to fellowship with other believers. If someone wants to clap or move around, I have no problem with that, as long as it doesn't become a distraction from the real reason we come together. And the same goes for those who want to just sit there and sleep. Each of us individually makes church what we want it to be. I have sat through a few boring sermons, but upon reflecting, it wasn't the messege so much as it was my attittude at the time. If my heart wasn't really wasn't into being there, no song or messege was going to hit home so to speak. But the times that I come with a joy in my heart to seek the Lord, I am moved beyond words. Being in a lay-led church I've listened to messeges given by persons who were not well spoken and have been moved to tears. Likewise I have listened to some of the most famous evangelists the Adventist church has to offer and have had a hard time keeping awake. Just recently I have found that I pray as I am driving to church that God will remind me throughout the service why I am there. And it is to be with Him. He seems to have a way of making me forget about all the other stuff going on and focus on Him (even when I am sitting there with 4 kids)

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

It's primarily a product of the fast paced, entertainment driven society that we live in. Satan has indoctrinated us to feel the need to 'feel' something in all apsects of our lives, worship included. That is why the celebration churches are so popular, why Penticost and evangelical services are so 'lively'... if ya ain't feelin' the Spirit, you ain't worshippin'.... very dangerous ground to be on, imo. God tells us to come to Him with a quiet humble spirit. The only 'feeling' we should have, besides the awe of being in His presence, is conviction of sin in our lives... I'm not saying there isn't time for rejoicing but, to me, we need to do it remembering that we are before the Mighty God of the Universe and not degrading Him by acting as though we are at some entertainment venue...

 

[stinsonmarri]

I grew up in a conservative baptist church. We had song service, but for the most part there wasn't any clapping, dancing, swaying, etc. It is much like the services I have attended within the Adventists churches I have been to. Do I find them dead, not in the least. I come to church to worship God, to be in His house, and to fellowship with other believers. If someone wants to clap or move around, I have no problem with that, as long as it doesn't become a distraction from the real reason we come together. And the same goes for those who want to just sit there and sleep. Each of us individually makes church what we want it to be. I have sat through a few boring sermons, but upon reflecting, it wasn't the messege so much as it was my attittude at the time. If my heart wasn't really wasn't into being there, no song or messege was going to hit home so to speak. But the times that I come with a joy in my heart to seek the Lord, I am moved beyond words. Being in a lay-led church I've listened to messeges given by persons who were not well spoken and have been moved to tears. Likewise I have listened to some of the most famous evangelists the Adventist church has to offer and have had a hard time keeping awake. Just recently I have found that I pray as I am driving to church that God will remind me throughout the service why I am there. And it is to be with Him. He seems to have a way of making me forget about all the other stuff going on and focus on Him (even when I am sitting there with 4 kids)

Elijah:

Very well taken.

Blessings,
stinsonmarri

 

[stinsonmarri]

It's primarily a product of the fast paced, entertainment driven society that we live in. Satan has indoctrinated us to feel the need to 'feel' something in all apsects of our lives, worship included. That is why the celebration churches are so popular, why Penticost and evangelical services are so 'lively'... if ya ain't feelin' the Spirit, you ain't worshippin'.... very dangerous ground to be on, imo. God tells us to come to Him with a quiet humble spirit. The only 'feeling' we should have, besides the awe of being in His presence, is conviction of sin in our lives... I'm not saying there isn't time for rejoicing but, to me, we need to do it remembering that we are before the Mighty God of the Universe and not degrading Him by acting as though we are at some entertainment venue...

ECR:

I understand what you are saying. However, the angels clap for joy and rejoice also the Bible says to rejoice all you saints. But we should not make worship an entertainment as well where we loose what we are there for. To tell you the truth I perfer more studying and lest preaching myself. Most of them today preach the same thing but in a different way and not anything concerning the prophecy and getting ready for the Savior soon coming. Too me it is all about prestige and show and how much education they have. I want more questions and answers or FAQ because our youth are still leaving. Today a friend of my ask about gambling where is it found in the Bible. More are asking question and we need to give an answer and be more serious. I still do not want us to continue singing in praise but then become serious in studying!!!

blessing,
stinsonmarri

 

[JohnMarsten]

feel it or not feel it that is the question!

if one does not feel does it mean one is on the safe side and if one does feel indeed does it mean one has fallen under the sway of a deception?

Tell me one thing and please be honest, when attending a church service (SDAstyle) do you feel good or do you at times feel like something is wrong and then you try to make up with your own mind that it is actually right?