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Originally posted by seebs
If Adam named all the animals, why are there so many animals in the world for which there was no name in any of the early languages?
Originally posted by Morat
Do you have a vested interest in God being blunt, always literal, and incapable of any sort of subtlety or elegance?
*Poofing* things into existance is about the most brute and inelegant solution you could come up with. It's the way children think the world works.
Who are you to argue with God about how He can create you? You of little understanding.... you have no idea what God was thinking! And He knows way too much to screw up. Who do you think allowed us to even think up engineering?
Plus Moses wrote the Genesis account Numbers 12:6-8
What's metaphorical about it? I suppose that the man He created was metaphorical as well? And the rib he took to form Eve...that was metaphorical? It wasn't a real rib....it was a fake one! And the garden He placed them in was metaphorical too? That's awfully funny... the Hebrew word used for "formed" is "yatsar-> to form/fashion" kinda like a potter takes clay and makes it into something. God fashion formed a man out of the dust of the ground just as He would a clay jar from the same dirt. And if I'm not mistaken, people knew what monkeys were. Genesis wasn't written before Adam, rather it was written later on. Who do you think wrote it?
Originally posted by Didaskomenos
So why do you think he had to make you the way you think he did? I don't really care if he made me by *poof* or by progression - you do! You can't entertain for a moment the notion that you might not have a full grasp of what was supposed to be conveyed in Genesis. You know everything about how and why it was written. "I'm sure that makes God very glad."
Whoever wrote Genesis used earlier ancient mythology. God revealed himself to Moses, and if Moses had a hand in redacting Genesis, he inserted the startling observations about monotheism and God's work of Creation. It trivializes myth to call it a riddle, and so even if Moses did write Genesis, there is no reason to call it a riddle. Besides, Moses heard from God face to face - but it doesn't mean that Moses conveyed everything the same way he received it. Maybe Moses got the "full dose," evolution and DNA and everything, but it doesn't mean that he would lay it on the Israelites.
You ask what's metaphorical about it? Who says I have all the answers? Not me. However, you think you can actually wrap your finite mind around a document written thousands of years ago in a Semitic language, under divine influence? Ask a Hebrew scholar how their brains viewed the world and processed language - it's sooooo different from the way we do.
And monkeys? They weren't native to the Ancient Near East, and therefore the Israelites likely never saw one. Besides, why should God single out "monkeys" as an ancestor like the Creationists do (for shock value), when there were so many other transitional forms?
I think the Pentateuch is based on extremely old sources, some predating Moses (e.g., Gen. 1-11), and some dated from about the time of Moses, and some after. These were not collected and put in the order and form we know until the days of the kings. Like C. S. Lewis, I believe that "There is the work of redactors and editors in modifying them. On...these I suppose a divine pressure; of which not by any means all need have been conscious."
Apparently you do otherwise you wouldn't keep on arguing about it...
I just know what the Bible says...
I'm saying what the Bible says
I'm not saying what I think only. I'm saying what the Bible says.
I tell you what it says...
So in other words you don't believe the Bible.... why didn't you just say so? You underestimate the people back then. They weren't all just cavemen walking around, they were people like you and me... I think they could understand if I can what evolution is. So if God wanted to tell us, I think He could...
Originally posted by Didaskomenos
I am only debating this because I believe it, not because I think it's unthinkable that God would *poof* create. My presupposition is that my mind is too small to comprehend all the truth God has placed in the Bible. Let's look at yours:
I do think those statements above presuppose your ability to interpret what you've read, a presumptuous assumption which I am not about to make in either of our cases.
You might as well say, "If God wanted to, he could have just sent Jesus to begin with, and by-passed the hundreds of years of the sacrificial system." Don't you think that maybe we're missing something? I think a lot of it has to do with the people not being ready.
I believe God. I trust him. I try not to lean on my own understanding, even if it's as obvious as you think the literal interpretation is.
Originally posted by Didaskomenos
Whoever wrote Genesis used earlier ancient mythology.
Originally posted by npetreley
And Dida knows this is true because he saw "The Making of Genesis" on PBS, a documentary where they interviewed the original authors and the authors of the myths that preceded Genesis. It was a fascinating show.
Originally posted by sbbqb7n16
I believe God, and I trust Him as well. But at some point you need to understand what God says to you... God said He created you. Trust Him on that...It's a lie of Satan to tell you that "it's too obvious" or "too easy" which is the principle behind grace. If God created you... science, chance, and anything else can't take the glory... and if you could earn your way to heaven by works.... Jesus can't have all the glory. It just doesn't work that way...
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