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speaking tongues a discussion

Willie T

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This is a very wise little story to remember when we think we are special enough to decide what is going on in another's life and heart........

The Old Man and the White Horse

Max Lucado (In the Eye of the Storm)
The Old Man and the White Horse

Once there was an old man who lived in a tiny village. Although poor, he was envied by all, for he owned a beautiful white horse. Even the king coveted his treasure. A horse like this had never been seen before – such was its splendor, its majesty, its strength.

People offered fabulous prices for the steed, but the old man always refused. “This horse is not a horse to me,” he would tell them. “It is a person. How could you sell a person? He is a friend, not a possession. How could you sell a friend.” The man was poor and the temptation was great. But he never sold the horse.

One morning he found that the horse was not in his stable. All the village came to see him. “You old fool,” they scoffed, “we told you that someone would steal your horse. We warned you that you would be robbed. You are so poor. How could you ever protect such a valuable animal? It would have been better to have sold him. You could have gotten whatever price you wanted. No amount would have been too high. Now the horse is gone and you’ve been cursed with misfortune.”

The old man responded, “Don’t speak too quickly. Say only that the horse is not in the stable. That is all we know; the rest is judgment. If I’ve been cursed or not, how can you know? How can you judge?”

The people contested, “Don’t make us out to be fools! We may not be philosophers, but great philosophy is not needed. The simple fact that your horse is gone is a curse.”

The old man spoke again. “All I know is that the stable is empty, and the horse is gone. The rest I don’t know. Whether it be a curse or a blessing, I can’t say. All we can see is a fragment. Who can say what will come next?”

The people of the village laughed. They thought that the man was crazy. They had always thought he was a fool; if he wasn’t, he would have sold the horse and lived off the money. But instead, he was a poor woodcutter, an old man still cutting firewood and dragging it out of the forest and selling it. He lived hand to mouth in the misery of poverty. Now he had proven that he was, indeed, a fool.

After fifteen days, the horse returned. He hadn’t been stolen; he had run away into the forest. Not only had he returned, he had brought a dozen wild horses with him. Once again, the village people gathered around the woodcutter and spoke. “Old man, you were right and we were wrong. What we thought was a curse was a blessing. Please forgive us.”

The man responded, “Once again, you go too far. Say only that the horse is back. State only that a dozen horses returned with him, but don’t judge. How do you know if this is a blessing or not? You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge? You read only one page of a book. Can you judge the whole book? You read only one word of one phrase. Can you understand the entire phrase?”

“Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. All you have is one fragment! Don’t say that this is a blessing. No one knows. I am content with what I know. I am not perturbed by what I don’t.”

“Maybe the old man is right,” they said to one another. So they said little. But down deep, they knew he was wrong. They knew it was a blessing. Twelve wild horses had returned. With a little work, the animals could be broken and trained and sold for much money.

The old man had a son, an only son. The young man began to break the wild horses. After a few days, he fell from one of the horses and broke both legs. Once again the villagers gathered around the old man and cast their judgments.

“You were right,” they said. “You proved you were right. The dozen horses were not a blessing. They were a curse. Your only son has broken both his legs, and now in your old age you have no one to help you. Now you are poorer than ever.”

The old man spoke again. “You people are obsessed with judging. Don’t go so far. Say only that my son broke his legs. Who knows if it is a blessing or a curse? No one knows. We only have a fragment. Life comes in fragments.”

It so happened that a few weeks later the country engaged in war against a neighboring country. All the young men of the village were required to join the army. Only the son of the old man was excluded, because he was injured. Once again the people gathered around the old man, crying and screaming because their sons had been taken. There was little chance that they would return. The enemy was strong, and the war would be a losing struggle. They would never see their sons again.

“You were right, old man,” They wept. “God knows you were right. This proves it. Your son’s accident was a blessing. His legs may be broken, but at least he is with you. Our sons are gone forever.”

The old man spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. No one knows. Say only this. Your sons had to go to war, and mine did not. No one knows if it is a blessing or a curse. No one is wise enough to know. Only God knows.”
 
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Bluelion

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That is why God gave judgments in which we could use His and not follow are own.

God said He who is angry with his brother is a murder and you know murders do not have eternal life in them. So what can we draw from that that people who murder are not saved, because Gods children do not murder. That is not my judgement but Gods.

If you object to the above find me a person in the Bible who was saved and a murder. Paul was a murder before he was saved, we know when he was doing this he was not saved, but later became saved. The passage does not say a murder can not be saved just that they are not.
 
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Willie T

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That is why God gave judgments in which we could use His and not follow are own.

God said He who is angry with his brother is a murder and you know murders do not have eternal life in them. So what can we draw from that that people who murder are not saved, because Gods children do not murder. That is not my judgement but Gods.

If you object to the above find me a person in the Bible who was saved and a murder. Paul was a murder before he was saved, we know when he was doing this he was not saved, but later became saved. The passage does not say a murder can not be saved just that they are not.
Was Peter "saved" when he discriminated against the gentiles? (Galatians 2:11 and following) Is the only sin you recognize, murder? Surely not.

Peter was "fearful" of the rejection of the Jews ("fear of Man?") (Revelation 21:8 addresses this.... "The Fearful" is the first description they mention)
 
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Bluelion

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Was Peter "saved" when he discriminated against the gentiles? (Galatians 2:11 and following) Is the only sin you recognize, murder? Surely not.

Peter was "fearful" of the rejection of the Jews ("fear of Man?") (Revelation 21:8 addresses this.... "The Fearful" is the first description they mention)

what does Peter have to do with the fact murders do not have eternal life in them? did I list every sin in the Bible no there is a book for that its called the Bible.:p
 
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God said He who is angry with his brother is a murder and you know murders do not have eternal life in them.
WITHOUT CAUSE. Jesus got angery plenty of times. As it is written, GOD IS ANGERY WITH THE WICKED EVERY DAY!
So what can we draw from that that people who murder are not saved, because Gods children do not murder. That is not my judgement but Gods.
Chapter and verse?
If you object to the above find me a person in the Bible who was saved and a murder. Paul was a murder before he was saved, we know when he was doing this he was not saved, but later became saved. The passage does not say a murder can not be saved just that they are not.
David was saved!

Can a saved person lie, steal, cheat, or slide and slip and commit some other sin...YES. Can a saved person do so and not be repentant? That is the question. I don't think a saved person could. Jesus said "You shall know them by their fruits". Was one of these fruits the fruit of repentance? When someone makes a mistake and slips, and sins that way I think a good indication on if they are saved or not is their attitude about it.

If you go to a gay pride parade and preach I think the state of their salvation (the parade participants) will be very clear. I cannot change the sky or the grass, I don't have that power, but I can clearly see them. I do not have the power to send people to hell nor save them from it but with some people where they are going is clear. With some it is not.
 
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Willie T

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what does Peter have to do with the fact murders do not have eternal life in them? did I list every sin in the Bible no there is a book for that its called the Bible.:p
Take a little look at Rev 21:8.
 
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This is a very wise little story to remember when we think we are special enough to decide what is going on in another's life and heart........
”
I do not understand what your story has to do with tongues but Jesus told us what was in others hearts.

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? - Jeremiah 17:9 (God can)

For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders Matt. 15:19 (Jesus is God)

That sister who faked tongues with fellow church members while high and drunk...her currant husband is her ex's former best friend. While she was still married she left her husband for his best friend and they both justified her adultery by saying God knows what's in their hearts. That God told them it was ok. To bad they never read scripture, ignored anyone who tried to show them what it said, and listened to Joel Osteen.
 
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Willie T

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I do not understand what your story has to do with tongues but Jesus told us what was in others hearts.

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? - Jeremiah 17:9 (God can)

For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders Matt. 15:19 (Jesus is God)

That sister who faked tongues with fellow church members while high and drunk...her currant husband is her ex's former best friend. While she was still married she left her husband for his best friend and they both justified her adultery by saying God knows what's in their hearts. That God told them it was ok. To bad they never read scripture, ignored anyone who tried to show them what it said, and listened to Joel Osteen.
Well, I've read most of your posts, so I can certainly believe that.

So, you say Jesus told me what is in YOUR heart? Then, since you claim I have this Jesus-given knowledge, how can you assume to dispute anything I (or anyone else) might choose to say about you and your motives?
 
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Well, I've read most of your posts, so I can certainly believe that.

So, you say Jesus told me what is in YOUR heart? Then, since you claim I have this Jesus-given knowledge, how can you assume to dispute anything I (or anyone else) might choose to say about you and your motives?
Jesus said what was in the human heart. You cannot trust your heart! Sometimes it can be a rubber ruler.
"how can you assume to dispute anything I (or anyone else) might choose to say about you and your motives?"
I can dispute it if it's wrong.

How could you tell Adolf Hitler that God didn't tell him to kill the Jews or my sister Beatrice that God didn't tell her to commit adultery? I think almost anyone that has studied scripture could tell them that God did not tell them that was ok.

The miracle of Tongues is in scripture and it clear from scripture how that miracle manifested. I also think eye witness testify I have read makes it clear that demons can and have counterfeited the tongues miracle and that people have deluded themselves into thinking they were speaking tongues when they were not.

Personally I will not attend any church where they teach people how to speak in tongues like that.

Well, I've read most of your posts, so I can certainly believe that." ?"
Now you had better not tell me not to judge or else that will be hypocritical as you have judged me. Better not tell me not to mock or that a mocking attitude is bad either.
 
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Bluelion

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WITHOUT CAUSE. Jesus got angery plenty of times. As it is written, GOD IS ANGERY WITH THE WICKED EVERY DAY!

Chapter and verse?

David was saved!

Can a saved person lie, steal, cheat, or slide and slip and commit some other sin...YES. Can a saved person do so and not be repentant? That is the question. I don't think a saved person could. Jesus said "You shall know them by their fruits". Was one of these fruits the fruit of repentance? When someone makes a mistake and slips, and sins that way I think a good indication on if they are saved or not is their attitude about it.

If you go to a gay pride parade and preach I think the state of their salvation (the parade participants) will be very clear. I cannot change the sky or the grass, I don't have that power, but I can clearly see them. I do not have the power to send people to hell nor save them from it but with some people where they are going is clear. With some it is not.

ok correction not anger but hate

1john3:15

15 Anyone who hates another brother or sister[e] is really a murderer at heart. And you know that murderers don’t have eternal life within them.
 
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Bluelion

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Not much point in trying to explain it to you if you cannot already see both Fearful people (Peter) and Murders included in the very same sentence.

obviously he did not mean people who have fear because the prophets had a lot of fear. Rev is tricky to understand to which i do not have an answer for that passage.
 
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