Speaking of History. . .

prodromos · Jan 12, 2006

repentant said:
Chrisouyenna in Greek, which means "Birth of Christ"

Typo alert! It should read "Christouyenna".

repentant · Jan 12, 2006

prodromos said:
Typo alert! It should read "Christouyenna".

Uh oh, how did I miss the "T"? the most important letter, lol.

IgnatiusOfAntioch · Jan 12, 2006

repentant said:
Ok I will. Christmas is an English word, not Latin. Christmas in Roman times (in Latin) was called Navidad, which means Nativity. Chrisouyenna in Greek, which means "Birth of Christ"

Let me try again. I apologize repentant. I was really thinking of those western Christians who think they have not historical connection with the Catholic Church. I wasn't really addressing of the other Ancient and Blessed Apostolic Churches.

It's a little late now, but Merry Christouyenna and a Blessed Nativity to you.

Christ is Born . . . . . . . Let us glorify Him.

Torah613 · Jan 12, 2006

IgnatiusOfAntioch said:
Speaking of history, have those of you who don't think the Catholic Church was the original Christian Church thought about where the word Christmas came from?

It is an abreviation of Christs' Mass! Try an prove me wrong.

May the Lord smile upon you in this Holy ChristMass season.

this is quite possibly the weakest argument I have ever seen. The Church of Rome was indeed part of hte Original Catholic Church, but guess what--the form it is in now is totally foreign to the original Church. Go back 1,000 years and what you would see is something closer to what you would find in Greece or Russia today. Don't believe me? look at the works fo Giotto.

Oh and BTW the whole Christmas thing was a late medeival invention. As was Childermass (feast of the Holy Innocents) and Michaelmas (feast of Archangel Michael) and Whitmas (Pentecost). Such naming systems were utterly unknown to the early Church which called it "Nativity."

Joe Zollars

Torah613 · Jan 12, 2006

PraiseToHim said:
Even us non Catholics know that there are only two possibilities for the original Church. The Catholic Church (ever see a list of the Bishops of Rome), and the Orthodox (ever see a list of the Bishops of Antioch).

Indeed so. So the question then is to look at Doctrine and Praxis (practice). Who has stayed the same course througout these 20 centuries.

This is a rhetorical question.

Joe Zollars

IgnatiusOfAntioch · Jan 13, 2006

JosephtheKansan said:
The Church of Rome was indeed part of hte Original Catholic Church, but guess what--the form it is in now is totally foreign to the original Church. Go back 1,000 years and what you would see is something closer to what you would find in Greece or Russia today. Don't believe me? look at the works fo Giotto.

Oh and BTW the whole Christmas thing was a late medeival invention. As was Childermass (feast of the Holy Innocents) and Michaelmas (feast of Archangel Michael) and Whitmas (Pentecost). Such naming systems were utterly unknown to the early Church which called it "Nativity."

Joe Zollars

Let me try once again. I apologize JosephtheKansan. I was really thinking of those western Christians who think they have no historical connection with the Catholic Church. I wasn't really addressing of the other Ancient and Blessed Apostolic Churches.

It's a little late now, but Merry Christouyenna and a Blessed Nativity to you.

Christ is born . . . . . Glorify Him.

joyfulthanks · Jan 16, 2006

Hello Ignatius my friend,

I think your OP is a bit of a stretch this time. Coining a word which others continue to use does not constitute evidence of being the original church.

After all, we in the west also use a derivation of a pagan goddess' name for the celebration of Christ's resurrection. That certainly doesn't make a pagan cult the original church! (I like the Eastern term 'Pascha' better for Easter, but that's just me.)

Your sister in Christ,
Grace

IgnatiusOfAntioch · Jan 16, 2006

contriteHeart said:
Hello Ignatius my friend,

I think your OP is a bit of a stretch this time. Coining a word which others continue to use does not constitute evidence of being the original church.

Your sister in Christ,
Grace

Hi Contrite. Peace be with you. What you say is true to a certain extent, but in this case it wasn't a matter of coining the word. If you check it out you will find that Christs Mass predates the English language, even Old English by many many centuries. It actually derives from the first few centuries after Christ.

May the Lord bless and keep you.

Your Brother in Christ.

Torah613 · Jan 16, 2006

yet it is still an English term. Thus by using this argument you essentially proove that only the citizens of the United Kingdom or her former colonies or the commonwealth can be saved. Hey and besides your last post has zero basis in history. some undergrad work in linguistics would teach you that one.

Joe Zollars

IgnatiusOfAntioch · Jan 18, 2006

JosephtheKansan said:
yet it is still an English term.

Peace be with you Joe.

I was really addressing those western Christians who think they have no historical connection with the Catholic Church. I wasn't really addressing of the other Ancient and Blessed Apostolic Churches.

Please read the underlined part.

Torah613 · Jan 21, 2006

so you decide to completely ignore a debate point by dismissing it as something someone said who is "from another ancient apostolic churc"? Do you even have an answer to this point?

You have stated something which simply is not true. The word Christmas is an, linguistically speaking, English term. Not even old English but late middle English. Until it was done in England, no one called it "Christ's Mass" or even "Christ's Liturgy." In fact the term didn't even come into primary use until after the reign of Elizabeth I and principally was used only among protestant minded anglicans. The more catholic minded, including the recusants used "happy holidays" instead so as to portray the ancient Catholic tradition of the season being a series of holy days and not just one feast.

Oh and btw, Anglicans still frequently call their service a Mass and have never ceased doing so. Therefore, there is no part of your argument that leads one towards the Roman Catholic Church.

Please if you are going to make a case based on logic, learn some.

Joe Zollars

Trento · Jan 21, 2006

I admire your patience and humiliy Ignatious. We are called to unity the unity that Christ prayed to the Father for.

Our Lord even makes unity a means by which the world might believe that the Father sent the Son (John 17:21,23), and prays that it will be as profound as the unity of the Trinity itself (John 17:21-22). St. Paul makes stirring up division a grounds for virtual exclusion from the Christian community (Romans 16:17), and says that divisions (in effect) divide Christ (1 Corinthians 1:13).
OUR LADY OF SOUFANIEH who appeared to a Greek Catholic woman who is married to a Greek Orthdox man is being given messages for mutual forgiveness and Unity of the Church and especially the unity of the feast of Easter. When Easter falls on the same date as in both East and West Churches a stigmata phenomenon manifests itself on her body. The Five wounds and the crown of thorns. They live very near the place where St. Paul was baptised.

Here is the web site.Our Lady of Soufanieh

Torah613 · Jan 29, 2006

wow all that and an Eastern Rite Catholic?

Now I know they are nothing like us.

Joe Zollars

IgnatiusOfAntioch · Jan 30, 2006

JosephtheKansan said:
wow all that and an Eastern Rite Catholic?

Now I know they are nothing like us.

Joe Zollars

May the peace of Christ also be with you.

Your brother in Christ.

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