Speaking In Tounges...

Bella Vita · May 18, 2011

I personally think it is taken very out of context in present day churches. It is not needed in places like America were we all speak English. If we look at the scriptures it was used as a way to reach/evangelize to tribes and nations where no one knew their language. It also says in the Bible that it is a spiritual gift meaning not everyone possesses it only a select few, and some may only posses it for a short period of time to reach those that they can't speak their language and then it is gone. The Bible also tells us that their must be a translator present when speaking tongues, yet many churches that practice this just have everyone doing it all at once no one is translating anything. I have never attended churches that practice this because I believe it is out of context for today at least in America. Maybe not if I were in remote Africa or somewhere then it might be ok if it is my spiritual gift. I think many times today it is used as a way to glorify ones self and make them look holier than another person. People do it but they don't really understand why they are doing it. It is more to fit in especially when you have certain Pentecostal groups that believe if one can't speak tongues they are not really a Christian. This is wrong in my belief and only causes issues because not everyone can speak tongues. I also do not believe that speaking in tongues is muttering and mumbling that no one can understand. In the Bible the disciples speak to the tribe in a language that they normally wouldn't have known but it was a known language the reaction of the tribe was shock because they could understand them they were speaking their language. It would be like if I went to Mexico to preach I don't know Spanish so me speaking in tongues would be me being able to suddenly speak Spanish not some random garble no one knows it is the ability to speak known languages you otherwise wouldn't know.

SCRIPTURE ON TONGUES:
-1 Corinthians 12:28-30 The list of spiritual gifts speaking in tongues is one of them.

-1 Corinthians 12:11 No one person has all the gifts. Every believer has received the gift of the Spirit, but not every believer has received the gifts which the Spirit bestows.

In Acts 2:4 Luke uses a different adjective when he says, “they began to speak with other tongues.” The word “other” (Gr. heteros) simply means that they spoke in languages different from the normal language they were used to. The context substantiates this. Notice the surprised reaction on the part of the hearers—“And they were all amazed and marveled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galileans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?” (Acts 2:7,8). Every man heard them speak in his own language (Acts 2:6). Here the word “language” is the translation of dialekto from which our word “dialect” comes. The two words glossa (tongue) and dialektos (language) are used synonymously, making it obvious that the disciples were speaking in known languages other than the language native to them. In verses 9-11 the languages are then identified. It was a miraculous phenomenon which enabled the disciples to speak in languages which they had never learned. Here in this Acts passage we have tongues-speaking in its pure and unperverted form as God gave it.

What are your beliefs on tongues?

Do you speak tongues? If so what is it like? How does it make you feel?

His_disciple3 · May 18, 2011

1 Corinthians 14:39
39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
KJV

KJV
1 Corinthians 13:8-10
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
KJV

in verse 10 this is not referring to the perfect Bible as many teaches so. for the Bible did not fulfill knowledge, but something we won't know til He comes back so when that which is perfect is come , is referring to Jesus, andso until Hecomes back with all revelation we still need prophecy and knowledge and tongues

Keachian · May 18, 2011

Not to mention the whole teaching of Pauls on spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians is contained in chs 12-14 inclusive. Where he says: "If I speak in the tongues of men and angels, but have no Love I am but a clanging gong or clashing cymbal." There... Scriptural basis for both the known tongue you talk of and the unknown that people use to pray.

miamited · May 19, 2011

Good morning Bella,

Yes, I agree that it is quite clearly explained by Paul as a spiritual gift and I believe the Scriptures teach that the spiritual gifts endowed through the Holy Spirit are not the same for each one of the born again believers. Some are gifted as teachers and can teach sound doctrine and quite frankly I'd much rather have that gift than the gift of tongues. If one can teach sound doctrine, then one must know sound doctrine. Some are gifted to be pastors or leaders of a flock of the born again believers. That is a huge responsibility and there are further requirements for those who have this gift. Some are gifted with a spirit of encouragement and I find that these born again believers are so needed among the body, especially in these days of apostasy and evolutionary instruction. We need to be encouraged that we are not alone in this journey of faith to everlasting life. Then there is the gift of tongues and I must say that I have visited fellowships where this gift is expected of everyone and I don't find that to be ini keeping with the teaching of the Scriptures. Further, the Scriptures seem to indicate that it should be manifest in an orderly manner of one speaking the tongue and another to translate. I don't find this practiced in those fellowships that I have witnessed.

Generally speaking, there seems to be a call to speak in tongues and then shortly there is just a cacophony of babbling and guttural sounds that everyone makes and if you visit repeatedly it seems, to me, that most are practiced and the same sounds repeated week after week. Never have I heard anyone speak in a tongue alone and someone else explain, "This is what the Spirit says through this person..."

However, having said all that I don't renounce tongues, but think that some fellowships have not understood the reality of the Scriptures teaching and have, just like some fellowships preach salvation by works, have made it an integral part of everyone's sign of salvation. I don't find that to be what is taught in the Scriptures.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Bella Vita · May 19, 2011

I agree Ted =]

Bella Vita · May 19, 2011

progmonk said:
Not to mention the whole teaching of Pauls on spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians is contained in chs 12-14 inclusive. Where he says: "If I speak in the tongues of men and angels, but have no Love I am but a clanging gong or clashing cymbal." There... Scriptural basis for both the known tongue you talk of and the unknown that people use to pray.

yes I can see that as being an explanation but what about the translator part? tongue speaking churches ususally just skip that part of the scripture

His_disciple3 · May 20, 2011

Bella Vita said:
yes I can see that as being an explanation but what about the translator part? tongue speaking churches ususally just skip that part of the scripture

so some churches misuse prayer, according to others, does that mean we should not pray???? Paul also spoke of praying in tongues, and this type of prayer is to the Spirit and not meant to be known to all, or either it is the Spirit praying for us, all tongues are not just foriegn languages as some would lead us to believe. for Paul said if I speak in tongues of angels, how many do you know that can interpret angel Language?? Paul also speaks of unknown tongues, if this is a foriegn language and someone can interpret that langauge then it can't be an unknown tongue, someone knows that language. No it is an unknown tongue the gift of tongues and God gives someone the gift in that service to interpret that Tongue, the gift of interpretation and yes the Bible says it could be the one that spoke tongues. however if someone is praying in tongues there may not be any interpretation given. but even with all the guidelines The Bible gives on tongues you are correct some will misuse this gift as well as all gifts, but some preach the Gospel wrong but this does not mean that all Gospels are wrong and that we shouldn't preach the Gospel. there has to be one true Gospel, as well as we should not forbid tongues simply for the fact that some may not understand, or even that some may misuse tongues, if a new christian sins (or goes against the Word of God) do we say they are of the devil?? or do we say they are just unlearned or inmuture in the Word??? so when someone misuses tongues or goes against the guideline of His Word concerning tongues do we say that they are of the devil?? or they are just unlearned or inmuture???

After I recieved the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, my wife said that some nights I would be praying in tongues in my sleep. Acts 19. Paul came up on some believers and they said they didn't know about the Holy Ghost, Paul laid hands on them and Baptised Them. John the Baptist spoke of another baptism, Jesus spoke of another baptism and used this baptism. Paul the Apostle to the gentiles. spoke of and also used this other baptism, why do so many reject a gift of God that was spoken of by three or more witnesses in the Holy Scriptures? because some misuse it ???? now not all that recieve the Holy Ghost baptism will speak in tongues.

Another point God just gave me, I speak in english ( not very good at it ) But i speak in English, English is a tongue, if all tongues are just languages I speak in the English tongue/langauge, so when I preached sunday to an English speaking people, I spoke in tongues why would there have to be an interpreter?? if tongues means a language everyone does speak in tongues. to say that tongues just means different languages this is a wrong teaching of tongues, and it is just as wrong to say speaking in unknown tongues is the evidence of being saved.

1 Corinthians 13:1
13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
KJV

Skala · May 20, 2011

In this passage tongues was simply used so that each person could hear the message in their own language:

Act 2:4-11
(4) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
(5) And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
(6) Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
(7) And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
(8) And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
(9) Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
(10) Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
(11) Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

So it is clear to me from the Bible that tongues was simply a gift used to speak the gospel message in such a way that persons from all languages could understand you. What they heard was you speaking their own language.

Obviously, then, tongues is not the nonsensical jibber-jabber that certain Christians say it is. It is actual language that people understand.

His_disciple3 · May 20, 2011

Skala said:
In this passage tongues was simply used so that each person could hear the message in their own language:

Act 2:4-11
(4) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
(5) And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
(6) Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
(7) And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
(8) And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
(9) Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
(10) Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
(11) Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

So it is clear to me from the Bible that tongues was simply a gift used to speak the gospel message in such a way that persons from all languages could understand you. What they heard was you speaking their own language.

Obviously, then, tongues is not the nonsensical jibber-jabber that certain Christians say it is. It is actual language that people understand.

so it must be also obviously by this verse that people can speak Angel langauge, but what I don't understand is why would Paul need to give the Gospel message to angels??

1 Corinthians 13:1
13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
KJV

So it is clear to me from the Bible that tongues was simply a gift used to speak the gospel message in such a way that persons from all languages could understand you. What they heard was you speaking their own language.

if it is so clear to you, could you clear up one thing for me? if you are correct " what you heard was you speaking their own language why did the Bible say there must be an interpreter, and I may add here speaking different langauges can be learned so then would it be a gift?

Bella Vita · May 20, 2011

His_disciple3 said:
so some churches misuse prayer, according to others, does that mean we should not pray???? Paul also spoke of praying in tongues, and this type of prayer is to the Spirit and not meant to be known to all, or either it is the Spirit praying for us, all tongues are not just foriegn languages as some would lead us to believe. for Paul said if I speak in tongues of angels, how many do you know that can interpret angel Language?? Paul also speaks of unknown tongues, if this is a foriegn language and someone can interpret that langauge then it can't be an unknown tongue, someone knows that language. No it is an unknown tongue the gift of tongues and God gives someone the gift in that service to interpret that Tongue, the gift of interpretation and yes the Bible says it could be the one that spoke tongues. however if someone is praying in tongues there may not be any interpretation given. but even with all the guidelines The Bible gives on tongues you are correct some will misuse this gift as well as all gifts, but some preach the Gospel wrong but this does not mean that all Gospels are wrong and that we shouldn't preach the Gospel. there has to be one true Gospel, as well as we should not forbid tongues simply for the fact that some may not understand, or even that some may misuse tongues, if a new christian sins (or goes against the Word of God) do we say they are of the devil?? or do we say they are just unlearned or inmuture in the Word??? so when someone misuses tongues or goes against the guideline of His Word concerning tongues do we say that they are of the devil?? or they are just unlearned or inmuture???

After I recieved the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, my wife said that some nights I would be praying in tongues in my sleep. Acts 19. Paul came up on some believers and they said they didn't know about the Holy Ghost, Paul laid hands on them and Baptised Them. John the Baptist spoke of another baptism, Jesus spoke of another baptism and used this baptism. Paul the Apostle to the gentiles. spoke of and also used this other baptism, why do so many reject a gift of God that was spoken of by three or more witnesses in the Holy Scriptures? because some misuse it ???? now not all that recieve the Holy Ghost baptism will speak in tongues.

Another point God just gave me, I speak in english ( not very good at it ) But i speak in English, English is a tongue, if all tongues are just languages I speak in the English tongue/langauge, so when I preached sunday to an English speaking people, I spoke in tongues why would there have to be an interpreter?? if tongues means a language everyone does speak in tongues. to say that tongues just means different languages this is a wrong teaching of tongues, and it is just as wrong to say speaking in unknown tongues is the evidence of being saved.

1 Corinthians 13:1
13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
KJV

I never said anything about getting rid of it all together or saying it isn't real. I was speaking about the churches that are misusing the gift of speaking in tongues and, don't observe it as a gift that some people have. But as something that everyone should be able to do because that's not biblical.

NvxiaLee · May 20, 2011

His_disciple3 said:
so it must be also obviously by this verse that people can speak Angel langauge, but what I don't understand is why would Paul need to give the Gospel message to angels??

1 Corinthians 13:1

I contend that Pentecostals misinterpret many of the verses related to tongues. In 1Cor13:1, Paul says "If I speak in tongues of men and of angels..." He says "if". The KJV uses "though", but that should still be taken as a conditional statement, not an assertion. I say Paul didn't speak in tongues of angels. Paul was openly using hyperbole to illustrate the importance of love.

In v2, Pauls says if he if he knew all mysteries and had all knowledge... Do you think Paul knew EVERYTHING? In v3 Paul says if he surrenders his body to be burned... Do you think Paul surrendered his body to be burned? If so, history is wrong for saying he was beheaded.

Though you have the whole world, but have not love, you have nothing. Not that you have, or could have, the whole world.

greenboy · May 21, 2011

Talking in tongue in churches without an interpreter is not biblical.

Bella Vita · May 21, 2011

greenboy said:
Talking in tongue in churches without an interpreter is not biblical.

Thank you i very much agree =]

stephenbooth · May 21, 2011

why does the KJV version use the word charity and NIV Love....is Charity to mean charity rather than love? how did that happen....?

His_disciple3 · May 21, 2011

greenboy said:
Talking in tongue in churches without an interpreter is not biblical.

who said it was??

Sir, the same Bible that says what you are saying also says to forbid not anyone to speak in tongues. your verse applies to today's church but mine don't ??? so if someone misuses tongues and speaks tongues in church, are they more guilty of being unbibical than the ones that forbid tongues to be used in church, or more guilty than the ones than accuse the gifts of the Holy Spirit to be works of the devil?? also and I am not accusing anyone of this, but rather just as a thought to be pondered; blaspheme is speaking bad of someone, blaspheme of the Holy Spirit is an unforgiveable sin, if The gifts are truely of the Holy Spirit which the Bibles says there are, is it not blaspheme to say that this is the works of the devil???

KJV
1 Corinthians 14:27-28
27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
KJV

1 Corinthians 14:39
39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
KJV

same bible, same chapter, same rules given on the use of tongues if verses 27-28 apllies today's church then verse 39 must apply also!! ever thought of that?

His_disciple3 · May 21, 2011

stephenbooth said:
why does the KJV version use the word charity and NIV Love....is Charity to mean charity rather than love? how did that happen....?

well we really don't need to change this into a translational thread, but since you ask!!! Charity is the exact word that needs to be in 1 cor 13. Charity is the action verb for love. Charity puts hands and legs on our love

1 Corinthians 13:4
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
KJV
love can run cold, love can envy, love can raise itself up. and love can be puffed up. but one action/charity through love can change a life for the good

if you say you love someone what good have you done them but show some charity when you say you love them now they know how you love them, someone can give to the poor for the wrong reasons, and you have neither love or the action verb/ charity. no my friend the KJB translators nailed this right on the head. the others or the ones that have missed it!!!

His_disciple3 · May 21, 2011

NvxiaLee said:
I contend that Pentecostals misinterpret many of the verses related to tongues. In 1Cor13:1, Paul says "If I speak in tongues of men and of angels..." He says "if". The KJV uses "though", but that should still be taken as a conditional statement, not an assertion. I say Paul didn't speak in tongues of angels. Paul was openly using hyperbole to illustrate the importance of love.

In v2, Pauls says if he if he knew all mysteries and had all knowledge... Do you think Paul knew EVERYTHING? In v3 Paul says if he surrenders his body to be burned... Do you think Paul surrendered his body to be burned? If so, history is wrong for saying he was beheaded.

Though you have the whole world, but have not love, you have nothing. Not that you have, or could have, the whole world.

but another misinterpretation is that a unknown tongue is a foriegn language if it is a foriegn language someone knows that language, so it is not unknown

why put this on the pentecostal many other denominations including Baptist are starting to receive and use the Spiritual gifts in their services after all once again, God did say in the last days I will pour out my Spirit on all people. I do believe that includes baptist. I am just wondering about how those Baptist that says it is the works of the devil will react when the Holy Spirit hits their place of worship with these gifts??

But one sad story out of this is that some of the southern Baptist missionaries are receiving the gifts and using them out on the mission fields and getting excited about it and writing back to the mission boards and telling about their gifts and the mission boards are pulling them off the mission fields.

one more point that was just pointed out to me if you are correct about the angel part in your post then would that not have too also apply to the "though i talk in tongues of men." so paul didn't speak at all neither in tongues of men or of angels!! come on!!!!!! can't have it both ways

NvxiaLee · May 22, 2011

His_disciple3 said:
but another misinterpretation is that a unknown tongue is a foriegn language if it is a foriegn language someone knows that language, so it is not unknown

The Bible doesn't mention "unknown" languages. "Unknown" is a word added by some translations that is not found in the original. So, your argument goes up in smoke. Also, your argument makes a mockery of the whole of Corinthians chapter 14 which argues that if no can understand, it's just meaningless noise and so tongues should not be used unless there is someone who can interpret. Speaking of meaningless noise, that's all Pentecostal tongues is. It's not a language. There is nothing to understand. It's just gibberish that the Pentecostal blames on God. It's insulting.

why put this on the pentecostal many other denominations including Baptist are starting to receive and use the Spiritual gifts in their services after all once again, God did say in the last days I will pour out my Spirit on all people. I do believe that includes baptist.

People in many diverse denominations speaking in tongues? When two people have conflicting doctrine, at least one of them is wrong. It's a mockery of God to say that people with false doctrine are speaking in tongues. And, if God is speaking through them, why doesn't God correct their doctrine? BTW, Peter said those are the last days, not now.

I am just wondering about how those Baptist that says it is the works of the devil will react when the Holy Spirit hits their place of worship with these gifts??

I am just wondering what you're going to do when you wake up one day and realize that you've just been spewing gibberish and that your leaders professional fakers. (Not to fault them too much, they were young and naive when they chose to become preachers, now they don't want to lose their jobs. On the other hand, some of them deserve to be faulted greatly, such as those behind the televangelism scandals.)

one more point that was just pointed out to me if you are correct about the angel part in your post then would that not have too also apply to the "though i talk in tongues of men." so paul didn't speak at all neither in tongues of men or of angels!! come on!!!!!! can't have it both ways

Come on, it's a very simple style of reasoning Paul is using. And, I thought made if very clear even to those who insist on keeping their eyes closed. Do you think Paul knew EVERYTHING? Anyone with even modest reading comprehension would see that Paul is not saying he speaks in languages of angels. Go get a dictionary and see what the meaning of "though" is. Go get a Greek lexicon and see what the meaning of the Greek word behind "though" is. Go get a modern English Bible translation so that you won't stumble over words that aren't in your vocabulary.

Your doctrine because it has become such a stumbling black to your understanding of scripture.

Hammster · May 22, 2011

NvxiaLee · May 22, 2011

Hammster said:
Once again, he's admitted he's not a Baptist. He shouldn't be arguing in these forums.

Who are you talking to? His_disciple3? The Pentecostal I just pwned, who just had his unbiblical argument so demolished that he took it personally? The one who just said "I left the Baptist Church" but his here promoting anti-Baptist theology? Or myself, who is defending the Baptist position?

Yeah, His_disciple3, Hammster has a message for you. You've admitted your not in the baptist church. You shouldn't be arguing in these forums.

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